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deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1792
Hemel Hempstead

 Great men of Faith without any money

Being a man of Faith and having no money go hand in hand. As it says in James. What I am trying to
gather here is a link, do great men of faith have no money?

Jas 2:5 - Show Context
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Elijah,Moses and others!!

I am just interested in


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Dominic Shiells

 2007/3/30 11:17Profile
iansmith
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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: Great men of Faith without any money

Hudson Taylor sold most of his posessions befor going to China, but he didn't keep the money for himself but instead gave it to the poor in the UK.

William Carey was a humble shoe maker.

Mary Seller was a poor factory worker.

DL Moody sold shoes in Chicago.

CT Studd gave all of his wealth away before going to China and Africa.

We could probably keep going, but I think there is definitely a link -but it may just be the level of sacrifice that these people exhibited in their daily lives gave them the ability to give up their entire world in order to witness the gospel of Jesus.

We can go all the way to the book of Acts for our model, Barnabus. He sold his field(s?) and became a mobile missionary.

Paul we can also assume was wealthy, but it never speaks of his wealth later, he's working as a tent-maker for his own food in his letters.

Maybe what Jesus said about a rich man getting into heaven in the bible isn't up to interpretation as many modern pastors would try to imply.


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Ian Smith

 2007/3/30 12:51Profile
JennRich
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Joined: 2006/7/17
Posts: 140
Alabama

 Re: Great men of Faith without any money

Quote:

deltadom wrote:
Being a man of Faith and having no money go hand in hand. As it says in James. What I am trying to
gather here is a link, do great men of faith have no money?

Jas 2:5 - Show Context
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?



But Jesus spoke of the [i]poor in spirit[/i] being blessed. . . I think some people make the mistake of equating monetary poverty with godliness (not that you implied it in your post, it's just an observation).

George Mueller was an excellent example of depending fully upon God for his everyday needs, even when he was running orphanages and had to feed and clothe hundreds at a time. He didn't believe in asking for donations -- not even letting people know if funds were needed or not! He just told the Lord, and trusted Him to lay it on a person's heart to give a certain amount. In this way, over many years, he provided for thousands of orphans. They never went without a nutritious meal (I believe that on one occasion, lunch was delayed for half an hour -- but that's all).


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Jennifer Richardson

 2007/3/30 13:42Profile
Provost
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Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re:

I am one that gets sick and angered with Christians using $$$ as a sign of faith (i.e. the properity gospel is no gospel), I would also say that lacking money is not a sign of faith. When you state the no money and faith go hand in hand you are looking at something physical to measure the level of faith. It's almost like saying men of good faith wear polos.
Lets not pretend like we can guage a man's faith by his wallet because I guarantee God has called men of extreme faith to be rich.

 2007/3/30 14:38Profile









 Re:

For me, these verses (from Luke) say everything on the subject:

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The rich must give all away (*) in order to demonstrate that their worldly possessions are not more important than their faith. their wealth is their great curse. . .

bub

(* or, i believe, use it all for purposes that demonstrate or bring about charity or justice and do not promote the self)

 2007/3/30 15:17









 Re:

Quote:
But Jesus spoke of the poor in spirit being blessed. . . I think some people make the mistake of equating monetary poverty with godliness (not that you implied it in your post, it's just an observation).

Right on!!

Poor in Spirit and rich in Faith.

 2007/3/30 15:22
Santana
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Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 286


 Re:

I personally know Great Men of God with a lot of money. They give much of it away but keep getting it back for some reason. ;-)


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Leonardo Santana

 2007/3/30 15:57Profile
JennRich
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Joined: 2006/7/17
Posts: 140
Alabama

 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:
For me, these verses (from Luke) say everything on the subject:

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The rich must give all away (*) in order to demonstrate that their worldly possessions are not more important than their faith. their wealth is their great curse. . .

bub



Hi Bubba, wealth is not a great curse of ALL wealthy people -- but it was for the rich young ruler. Jesus knew this, and so his answer to him was specific to this one case. The Bible has MUCH more to say about money than just what's in these few verses -- we must take them all into consideration to get the full picture.


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Jennifer Richardson

 2007/3/30 18:15Profile
Santana
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Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 286


 Re:

I'm sure everybody knows that the reason Jesus told him that because Jesus knew what had a hold of his heart...it was the love of money.

If a man loves God over money than there IS NO problem with having it. That's between Jesus and the rich young ruler.

Should a man pluck his left eye out if there's NO problem with lust?


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Leonardo Santana

 2007/3/30 19:54Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1792
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

The reason I was saying this is because it is interesting looking at history.
It says in the bible

2Th 3:10 - Show Context
For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.


I do not believe earning money is wrong. What I am interested in aswell. I have had to have more faith as I do not have a job but want one.
I think the times that I have the least money and provision the more faith I have.

Money can be useful in buying everything from tracks to webspace to christian books.

What we also spend our money on is an interesting discussion.

Hudson Taylor only provided for himself in food terms, the very basics. Then he used the rest for the glory of god and I do believe providing for Family.

The New King James Version
- Study This Chapter


1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily F94 with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury." 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached F95 to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, F96 and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.' 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day--death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges F97 her.

9 "The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.' 11 And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: 12 merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; 13 and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men. 14 The fruit that your soul longed for has gone from you, F98 and all the things which are rich and splendid have gone from you, and you shall find them no more at all. 15 The merchants of these things, who became rich by her, will stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls! 17 For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.' Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance 18 and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What is like this great city?' 19 They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.' 20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles F99 and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!" 21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. 23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."

Re 13:17 - Show Context
and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It is interesting that Babylon mentions wealth of the mearchants. What would we do without money.
If we had to take the mark of the beast to earn money what would we do for food


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Dominic Shiells

 2007/3/30 21:22Profile





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