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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463



Romans 13:6,7: For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon1 this very thing.
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

This is still in effect. No amount of philosophizing can eliminate this directive. This was written by a man who wrote about a government that later killed him. Now go figure!

BTW: I am not impressed with the co-mingling of all different kinds of religions who work to eliminate war. What they are working for is to get rid of Jesus believing Christians because we believe in absolutes, are exclusive in our beliefs, do not believe in the 'big tent'.

Sir, your position bothers me. You do not promote classical Christianity at all. Why do you even bother to come here?


Sandra Miller

 2007/3/30 23:02Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463


Bubba wrote:

pss. here's an Oxfam letter from religious leaders on the subject.

Bubba, I would urge you to go read what pastorfrin wrote on the thread "We Need to Talk About Peace". Read the post he wrote on 2007/3/8 at 15:05.
[Edit] Or, here is the link:


Sandra Miller

 2007/3/31 7:15Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi everyone.


I would like to second what brother Daryl expressed and confirm it a bit from my own experience.

"On the streets people always want to interupt you so I politly ask them to just hold that thought and I'll get back to them in just a min. Normally the Lord defuses them before I return to them."

My experience is limited to conversations with small groups of people but it still happens that someone may walk up on the conversation and begin to interject [i]whatever[/i]. Or it may be that one of the people standing around listening will interject something. Two things have been helpfull in my experience, which also brother Daryl suggested:

the need to excercise authority, or as he put it, [i]cultivate what's called commandability[/i]. I do not mean, and I don't think he did either, that we should go around giving people orders. Still, it is needfull to be, in a measure, in control of the situation, and to keep control of the converstion. It maybe that the adversary's tactic is to confuse and misdirect the converstion so that the people we are speaking to never hear the message of the Gosepl clearly, or whatever it is that God has given us to speak upon. And as brother Daryl suggested, asking them politely, to 'hold that thought', or something similar, has been helpfull in my experience also.

Also, I try to adress people as sir, or ma'am(except with younger children who I may address as young man or young lady), no matter who they are or what [i]station[/i] of life they may be in. I think people respond better to authority when you treat them respectfully.

And remember too [i] A Soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.[/i]

We need help from the Lord at every turn.

And because we do not physically see our adversaries, I think it is easy to forget that once we are speaking to others, we are on the field of battle.


Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/31 8:43Profile

Joined: 2006/12/10
Posts: 76


I want to thank everyone for the advice you have given. Sometimes I am interested on where the people take the conversations in the jail. Usually when this sort of thing does happen, It is taken care of directly. The only thing about this guy was all the polite "hold that thought" statemnets I made would be ignored. There are those people who won't listen to you sometime. Once again thanks for the advice.

Bubbaguy, I don't really see Jesus anywhere in scripture not saying what he meant. He didn't hide things from pharisees or any one else because it wasn't His time to go. The scriptures say that when Jesus offended people and they were about to stone Him or throw Him off a cliff, He walked right through their midst and was not harmed.

God Bless
Riding for the King!!

Adam Moore

 2007/3/31 9:20Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Outlandish

think you have misinterpreted the passage about rendering unto Ceasar. What Jesus says is essentially that what you so decide you owe to Ceasar is exactly what you owe, and nothing more. it is your decision what you render unto God and what you render unto Ceasar; and your decision makes obvious your commitment to each.

this is how Jesus actually supported political activism while not bringing about his premature incarceration. (the time was not ready) if He had said, don't pay taxes to Ceasar, He would have been immediately arrested. so He used covert language to tell the truth about where our allegiances should be.

What an absurd notion! "[i]what you so decide[/i]" may well summarize the greater part of the things you forward here. Do you not realize that you are crafting in essence an idol of your own making to worship? You are placing a skewered humanitarian above allegiance to the Lord and find little difficulty in making scripture bow to your interpretation ... On that note, this is something I am beginning to find quite a bother, this idea that 'everybody interrupts the scriptures differently', definitely something for another posting.

Sir, your position bothers me. You do not promote classical Christianity at all. Why do you even bother to come here?

And it bothers me even to the point of being practical besides myself in just what it might take to bring you to a rejection of or at the very least some reconsidering of these things you have crafted in our flawed understanding. Without a doubt there is much that is flawed in all of understanding but I do not recall you having expressed any change of mind since you have been here. I do not believe your motives are in any way hostile and that has kept the charity open. That however does not change anything over your abuse of the scriptures.

Bubba, I pray sincerely that you would seriously consider reading through [url=]Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride[/url] as it applies to how [i]you[/i] determine what is acceptable or subject to your [i]own[/i] interpreting.

[i]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.[/i] Rom 8:7

Mike Balog

 2007/3/31 9:42Profile

Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: problem at jail

Dear divdasunder,

Truly, you have a difficult situation. I would not know what to do either. I am nothing, and I am not sure if I could give you any worthy advice. May the Lord lead you, and may He bless you with His presence. I will write what is placed on my heart.

Jesus said, "Do not throw pearls to swine." This is a classic example of this. Some people will not accept the gospel. There is nothing we can do in such situations except to heed the words of our Lord. A pearl is nothing to a swine. The swine will not acknowledge it or even look it at. When we throw a pearl at a swine, the swine will just leave it there in the mud. As such, you must refrain from arguing with this man. Ignore him. Save your pearls for those who listen.

Jesus said, "Love your enemies." Obviously, this man is not speaking alone. The Devil is using him to speak against the bible. Pray for this man that Christ will set Him free. Only God can help in this situation. You can do nothing.

If the man is rejecting the bible, then quoting scripture will do nothing for him. Continue to preach the Word as Christ directs for the others. The truth will always prevail against lies. Do not be concerned about what this mans says, and do not be fearful. Lies have been taught since the day of Christ, and will continue to be taught. These do not concern God. He is far greater. Stay focused on the truth and the gospel. This man will try to direct you away from the gospel so that your preaching becomes ineffective. If you are focused on other issues and counter theology, then you will not be preaching the cross.

When anyone speaks about God the "creator", we should quickly point out that God chose to be known among His people as "Savior." God doesn't want to be known simply as "creator", he wants to be know as Jesus, whose name means "Savior." (Matthew 1:21)

Lastly, pray for the Holy Spirit to be upon you with great authority and power. Pray for the Lord's presence. In this, the man will be convicted of his words.

It could be the Lord has sent you there for the salvation of this very man. As such, be prepared for a spiritual battle, and always give in love, just as Jesus gave His life on the cross.

I hope this helps,
I will pray for you in this,

In Christ,

Blake Kidney

 2007/3/31 10:19Profile

 Re: your post

15Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words.

Mike, why don't you see that the message of this passage is that we owe all to God?

many people live purposefully below the taxable income line because they refuse to pay war taxes.

many people use barter and exchange economic systems in their neighborhood and community to avoid taxes (its one of many benefits)

many people give sufficiently to sound and worthy charitable endeavours in order to not pay taxes on a certain portion of their income

these are just a few ways to avoid paying taxes to the US government that will support killing of innocent people worldwide, either directly or through collateral means.

Ceasar was declared to be "God" by the state and the question was really whether Jesus would support paying tribute to him.

On this day when the US government continues to cynically use US troups to establish control over the oil resources in the Middle East (they had to destroy the regime of the evil leader established in power by Bush Sr. -- Hussein -- as a cover) we should be praying that the world community will come to its senses and work to remove US and other armed forces from the area.

(i would propose that the US military informs the
Sunis and Shiite that US troops will begin to leave when they stop fighting amongst themselves and then get to fixing all the public infrastructure that is broken by the war in Iraq.)

the fact is, your tax dollars today are being used to kill people and you tell me that i have a pride problem because i am willing to point out the truth of this matter, and not shove it under the rug.

Jesus paid the ultimate price today for our sins, but also to punctuate history, leaving us all an example of how to live justly and lovingly. that's a practical recipe for peace on this earth.

the fellow in the jail that got this string started was obviously jerking our young friend around, in part, likely because he wanted to see what the lad was made of. (but this and much worse should be expected going into a jail.)

my point is that if you want to take Jesus seriously we need to follow His actions as well as His words. if He were here today, would He fight in the war? would He condone you to do as such?

Jesus was an activist, pacifist.


 2007/4/6 18:20

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