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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : LECTURE I - WHAT A REVIVAL OF RELIGION IS by Charles Finney

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 Re:

This first lecture has covered alot of ground and its amazing the forceful language God gave Charles Finney in writing it. Here are some of the main topics addressed in the 1st lecture:
-When Revival...
-Why Revival...
-What is not Revival...
-What is Revival?..
-How does Revival work?..
-Revival Theories?..

I encourage everyone to read and re-read and listen along to the audio recording of this message and as God leads you go to the 2nd lecture: [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1633&forum=40]LECTURE II - WHEN A REVIVAL IS TO BE EXPECTED[/url]


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/4/15 22:15Profile
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Bro Robert,
Let me put it like this; when I was young in the Lord I would preach against my pet peeves and it did not work God's righteousness.

Imagine this; you come to Church with your bible gun loaded to kill one of the goats because you have an axe to grind- you fire the gun and the bullet missed them and richochets off the horn and kills a good sheep or a lamb at that. What a travesty!
Firstly, thank you for the recordings, they are of immense benefit to me, as I can listen in the car, and go though a lecture several times a day. Secondly, I must say, that I have been deeply touched by reading your posts, and seeing the evident softening of your heart. It seems that modern day Evangelical/Pentacostals seem to think that to soften is to compromise on the standards that christ spelt out. It is refreshing to be amongst people who do not fall for that snare.
Softness come from seeing our own state and having a willingness to change. The two extremes of this state are, legalism and complacency.
Legalism seeks to look at others state and desire to change. I have many times fallen for this state in previous attempts to get revived. It's almost like I look at my life, behold my sin and decide that it's too hard to change (although I'd never allow myself to admit it), to I go back to being an adviser without being an agoniser in prayer, as Bro Ravenhill put it. From this state we focus on the judgement of God without beholding is mercy.
Complacency seeks to get off the hook of sin without doing the hard yards of prayer and repentance. It's when we focus on John 3:16, while ignoring the rest of the chapter. I usually err on the side of judgement more than this, but one I am in this state, it's more like an ignorant "I'll start praying tomorrow ... or next year ... or wait until that intercessor guy is coming to preach at church." I just leave off my daily habit of seeking God for a day .. week ... month(s). I have an intercessor friend who refers to this as wanting a kind of greasy grace
Anyway, what I'm saying is that God has been dealing with me from both fronts. Once upon a day I used to rejoice when and unrepentant sinner fell under conviction. Now I rejoice when I see someone fall into the hands of God, who can help us to deal with sin at the source, without becoming hard (very rare these days).
That's what I've been seeing when I look in the mirror. And the best thing is that I know that it's nothing in me that is working this change in me. If I don't spend the morning in prayer, and leave it til the afternoon, or evening. I may as well be unregenerate. I'm moody, prone to angry outbursts. But when I spend time "putting to death the misdeeds of the body..by the spirit", man it's hard to sin. I've got the Holy Ghost prompting me in the moments before I sin, so I know that I have no one else to blame for my actions.
Anyway, I'll to now before I feel the urge to give an altar call :-D. But one last though toward this comment:
Brother Greg, why can't we have revival? Can I suggest that it is because their needs to be a revival among our ministers first? Would I be out of line to say that if the message is weak the minister is weak and needs revival? In an age of such apostacy would not a Finney or Wesley come on the scene with such fire and preaching that hell would once again open up underneath the people as they sat in their benches?
I am reminded that Finney never saw eye to eye with his mentor, Rev Gale & Samuel served faithfully under Eli. In an ideal world, it would be good to have revived leadership, however may I suggest that God is waiting to see if we will be revived in spite of our leaders?
Keep up the good work, yours in Christ

Aaron


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/4/17 1:26Profile
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 Re: LECTURE I - WHAT A REVIVAL OF RELIGION IS by Charles Finney

A "Revival of Religion" presupposes a declension.
The first thing that we need to accept when we approach the subject of revival, is the the church is backslidden. As Tozer puts it:
"The church is made up of individuals"
If the church is made up of inividuals, then individuals in the church are backslidden. If individuals in the church are backsliden, there's are good chance that I am backslidden. If I am to see revival in my time, I have to take responsability for seeing seeing it come to pass.
..it is necessary to awaken men to a sense of guilt and danger, and thus produce an excitement of counter feeling and desire which will break the power of carnal and worldly desire and leave the will free to obey God.
Everywhere around us, there is an overwhelming push towards ungodliness. In the words of a church sign I read once:
The problem of sin is that it starts out as fun.
We need to accept the fact that without being revived, we will never be able put do away with sin. As long as we live in sin, we give the devil foothold to hold us back from serving him wholeheartedly. It's the old paradox, sin stops us praying, but but we can't stop sinning without prayer. Our sin overwhelms us so we don't repent, but we can't be cleansed of sin without repentance.
..revival is the result of the right use of the appropriate means.
Without the means, trust in & obedience toward God, we will never see revival. Jesus said to pray so we pray. Jesus said repent, so we repent. Jesus said show mercy, ...etc.
It is the renewal of the first love of Christians, resulting in the awakening and conversion of sinners to God.
A good sign that we're on the right track with this journey we are undertaking. Is our love, awe, and fear of God deepening? Is our love for man growing? Do we show mercy in spite of persecution? Do we pray and study more? Unless this is happening, why are we doing it?
I've never been one to buy into the "carnal christian" debate, but one thing I know, is that it's better for you to be a "carnal christian" than to abandon God and church altogether. Fair enough, it will be worse for you in the judgement to be luke warm, than cold, but at least you are in a place where God can get through to you. My purpose in say this is that I think it is better to be a hard, unmerciful, sinful believer (now hows that for an oxymoron :-)) who puts into practice the menas that will lead to revival, in desire to change, than to be a faithful compassionate church attender, who is content to live without God's reality in your life. One has a chance to change, the other is doomed.
That's all I have time to comment on for now. For some good thoughts on the subject I recommend Tozer's "How to get out of a Religious Rut" series. Thank you for allowing me to join you in this journey. You guys are awesome.

Yours in Christ

Aaron


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/4/17 2:30Profile
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 Re: LECTURE I - WHAT A REVIVAL OF RELIGION IS by Charles Finney

Oh boy! Do I feel excited by this message or what?

For so long now I have been hearing, and hoping, and praying for revival here in the UK. I have begun to experience the journey back to my first love in Christ, and have marvelled at the beauty to be found there. How I have longed for others to feel the same way. How I have longed for God to pour out His Spirit, and revive His Church.

Yet all along I have been missing the point! I have been waiting for God to move, when He already has! I have been waiting for God to start the revival, when He has already done so in my own heart. It is up to me to take this burning heart, and set fire to others in the Church.

I remember the first time I turned to Christ, and even though I was such a shy person, I went into a crowded room full of people I didn't know, and just couldn't shut up about my new found Love! I have often looked back at that time with tears, wishing and longing to be back there.

Well now I know where to look! I will waste no more time waiting for a revival to break out, I will bury my face in the dust until God has no choice! I will cast off all that I have considered valuable, and enter into his presence again as naked and vulnerable as the day I was born into this world. Oh Lord! Forgive me for all this wasted time! Restore me, restore this nation, and restore Your Body!


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John Dunning

 2005/4/23 8:07Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Well now I know where to look! I will waste no more time waiting for a revival to break out, I will bury my face in the dust until God has no choice! I will cast off all that I have considered valuable, and enter into his presence again as naked and vulnerable as the day I was born into this world. Oh Lord! Forgive me for all this wasted time! Restore me, restore this nation, and restore Your Body!



Finney believed that revival came by God's Holy Spirit and by the means of preaching the word and men rightly responding to that word. If revival begins it must begin with me turning back to the love I had at first for God. When I cease to forget that I was once purged from my old sins. When I reallocate my affections to the God who so deserves them- I will feel the winds of revival.

God BLess,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/4/23 18:28Profile
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Joined: 2005/4/6
Posts: 15
Southampton, U.K.

 Re:

Quote:
Finney believed that revival came by God's Holy Spirit and by the means of preaching the word and men rightly responding to that word. If revival begins it must begin with me turning back to the love I had at first for God. When I cease to forget that I was once purged from my old sins. When I reallocate my affections to the God who so deserves them- I will feel the winds of revival.



I don't know if my words came across unclearly, or if I am misunderstanding your comment. But I would just like to make my point clear.

I have no doubt whatsoever where Revival comes from. All power is from and through the Holy Spirit, for the salvation of souls, to the glory of Jesus Christ! If my words hinted at anything else forgive me.

My main thrust was toward the fact that it is often overlooked on my part that God chooses to display His Glory through the lives of those who have committed their lives to Him. As the Bible tells us in Mark's gospel, "With God all things are possible." All I wish to do is emphasize the WITH!

My point is that many Christians seem to kick their heels waiting for this revival to come. Many times we hear the message preached about the promises of God for health and prosperity, whilst ignoring the flipside of the cost involved in following Him.

As John Wesley commented to his brother Charles; "If salvation by faith is preached, along with a call to holiness, a blessing will always follow."

I have been guilty of grasping the first, whilst ignoring the latter.


God bless,


John.


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John Dunning

 2005/4/25 16:20Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Taximan,

No misunderstandings. I was simply throwing some thoughts out as well.

Quote:
My point is that many Christians seem to kick their heels waiting for this revival to come. Many times we hear the message preached about the promises of God for health and prosperity, whilst ignoring the flipside of the cost involved in following Him.

As John Wesley commented to his brother Charles; "If salvation by faith is preached, along with a call to holiness, a blessing will always follow."

I have been guilty of grasping the first, whilst ignoring the latter.



How true this is. I have also ignored the latter. It is very easy to get out of balance.

I pray that God would use Finney's timeless revival lectures to again stir the hearts of His people.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/4/25 16:33Profile





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