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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : " Pretentious Long Prayers And Praying "

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sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 " Pretentious Long Prayers And Praying "

The scriptures clearly teach that there is such a thing as praying to be (heard) -and- praying to be (seen) of men.

The "secret closet" however is a place - where no one else listens to your prayer...and is only heard and acknowledged by the Father which is in heaven.

Jesus said the Scribes and pharisee's were notorious for praying LONG PRAYERS - but it was in pretence ( meaning not sincere, feigned as it were, false piety ) Matthew 23:14

But why was it a pretence ??

And also why then would this thing of "long prayers" then bring censure from our Lord Jesus ? and resulting in a stinging reproof ?

Jesus addresses (2) issues in the one passage
A) the pharisee's devoured the widow's estates, houses, last testaments and wills.
B) AND - for pretence reasons they made up very long and drawn out prayers.

Now obviously the prayers offered were in guile with the ultimate aim to pilfer the widow's estates from them.

The prayers tricked the widows and somehow they convincd them to hand over their estates in the process ~~ and with the use of really "spiritual sounding prayers " this then was the hatchet they used to seal the signature - and to get the poor unsuspecting widow ... to hand over the moolah.

But the issue of long and drawn out prayers was clearly and evidently - on Jesus' hit list on that day also.

Now Go back to the "sermon on the mount" - and we see the same issue of praying to be heard; and to seen of men - is also addressed ( matt 6:5-6 )

Jesus said those hypocrites - love to pray
STANDING UP IN THE SYNAGOGUES ....AND IN THE STREET CORNERS - that they may be SEEN of men.

Praying for eye-service, praying for human recognition and praying to look spiritual and praying - that your praying ability would be [admired] in MEN - AND BY MEN WHO GATHER AROUND TO LISTEN.

And verily : that is their [reward] that their long prayers and their public prayers are admired in men.

If i wanted to ~~ i could spend a whole week thinking about how i might pray in public or at the next prayer meeting - or i could actually rehearse praying to such a degree that the words JUST ozze from my lips - to a point of oratorical perfection....and i could sound really really good in public.

Or i could pray from the heart - sincerely and [unfeigned] - and only praying that the father in heaven would both acknowledge, hear and recognize that prayer.

Basically Jesus has got the hypocrites pegged and knew that they wanted their prayers to be admired and for people to see what a great prayer they are
he especially nails the kind of praying that is normolly" reserved" and awaits the public appearance (as such) !

In the prayer closet though their is no room for skiting, or for showing off, or to razzle dazzle the listeners - with your long and pretentious prayers.

Are we praying to look and to sound good (or) sincerely from the heart - as unto the father ??

It's both a fair and pertinent question beloved.

We claim today that were not religious or that we don't do things religiously - but where in scripture do you see Jesus both opening and closing in prayer .... when he taught the people ??

Many times also he sat down and taught the people, he didn't always stand up - to teach.

So many things are done for shew and for recognition today - and for to be seen of men.

He didn't always dress the same way for every sermon either - we become creatures of habit don't we ? some won't preach with-out a (3) piece suit and tie ... around their necks !!

Is that somehow making the person more reverent or respectful ? because he has suit around his body ?

But i said all that to say ~~ many things today are done religiously and for eye-appeal, as being unto men. And yet often - "we" in pentecostal circles -BOAST- that we are not religious. ! :-o

Ive attended prayer meetings where it was obvious that certain prayers ( being really long ONES ) were designated for the reward and admiration of the LISTENER.

Like i said though at the out-set, if i wanted to do the same thing i could easily craft a prayer in such a way, that i would look and sound good, even to a point that the youth would probably be WOWED by it - perhaps saying to themselves - what a prayer warrior is this man i just heard pray.

Jesus appears to have discerned in matthew chapter 23 certain kinds of praying that were very pretentious in nature ( very insincere ) yes on the surface it might sound good, sound ultra spiritual and totally biblically [scripture wise] - but yet in his spirit ( Jesus ) knew something was OFF - and something was up with it.
( not right )

He knew that the religion of the Jews had this open and [public penchant] for long prayers - but he also [sensed and knew] it was often for kudos and to look and sound spiritual - and to have one's [prayers] admired in MEN !! :-) :-(


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Bro Stephen

 2007/3/26 21:26Profile
Goldminer
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Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: " Pretentious Long Prayers And Praying "


There is a difference between praying "to" be seen of men, and praying and being seen of men. It is an issue of the heart.

Daniel prayed in front of an open window and was seen, but his heart was hidden, and God heard him. His purpose wasn't to be seen, but to be heard of God. There is a big difference between the two.

[color=6600CC]Joe 1:14 Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders [and] all the inhabitants of the land [into] the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD,[/color]

[color=6600CC]Joe 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:[/color]

[color=6600CC]Zep 3:18 I will gather [them that are] sorrowful for the solemn assembly, [who] are of thee, [to whom] the reproach of it [was] a burden.[/color]

There is a time to shut the door and pray to the Lord in secret, there is also a time to gather together and cry out to the Lord.


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KLC

 2007/3/26 22:59Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re: " Pretentious Long Prayers And Praying "

There are many ways of viewing this subject.

There can be short prayers that are for performance, and long prayers in which someone is simply pouring out a fountain of heartcry before God.

And vice versa, of course.

Best to concentrate on prayer that is done in secret, when you know it is only you and God in conversation with each other.

Whatever we do, lets pray, for God's glory.

God bless.

 2007/3/27 5:38Profile
sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

Obviously one can't digress everytime to qualify everything you don't mean !

When preaching the Word of truth.

Obviously Jesus addressed this subject from the one angle.

And i the same !!!

If we choose to mis-represent someone's post then you've bound something to yourself on earth ( it's called spite )

Obviously i wasn't saying all open prayer has an alterior motive ( was i ? )

Did i not simply concur with the scriptures concerning prayer that seeks to "strut and demonstate that of - fasle piety " ??

Citing examples from my own life - that i have personally witnessed, where you [know in your knower] that the prayer was fake - in that it was rehearsed and pre-meditated ....for the sole purpose of [showing off] in public.

Jesus said and not - I

That such shall recieve greater damnation if the prayer constitutes pretence and alterior motive.

:-o


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2007/3/27 10:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:
There can be short prayers that are for performance, and long prayers in which someone is simply pouring out a fountain of heartcry before God.



Amen!

Quote:
Best to concentrate on prayer that is done in secret, when you know it is only you and God in conversation with each other.



NO NO NO! This is contrary to scripture and most every revival in history. It was Leonard Ravenhill who said that the prayer meeting is the cinderella of the church.

Acts 4:31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

In Christ -Jim

 2007/3/27 10:53
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:

'But when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly', Matt 6v6.

Jim,
This is what I was referring about prayer being done in secret.

We know there is both secret and corporate prayer
to be done by Christians.

God bless.

 2007/3/28 2:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:

sonofthunder wrote:
Obviously one can't digress everytime to qualify everything you don't mean !

When preaching the Word of truth.

Obviously Jesus addressed this subject from the one angle.

And i the same !!!

If we choose to mis-represent someone's post then you've bound something to yourself on earth ( it's called spite )

My Dear Brother

Who is deliberately misrepresenting anything here? Who is being spiteful? I can't see any deliberate misrepresentation or the faintest hint of spite in anything written so far.

Someone may have innocently misunderstood what you meant, but that is all.
Quote:
Obviously i wasn't saying all open prayer has an alterior motive ( was i ?)

No you didn't. Is anyone saying you did?
Quote:
Did i not simply concur with the scriptures concerning prayer that seeks to "strut and demonstate that of - fasle piety " ??


Yes, so what's the problem? :-?

jeannette

 2007/4/1 17:33
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

I have nothing to say - but 1 thing only

Physician heal thyself !!


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Bro Stephen

 2007/4/2 20:42Profile
sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

It's always interesting when women take it upon themselves to reprove and admonish the men. And [wrap tags] around certain selective quotes.


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Bro Stephen

 2007/4/2 20:43Profile
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

If this is meant to somehow be a spear in my side
then Im rejoicing and praising my God
At this moment - very loudly and vocally

:-)

Have a nice day

I know i will - and shall in my Saviour


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2007/4/2 20:48Profile





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