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 church rebuked

Many of you have heard of an incident on Feb. 18th at Kensington Main Campus 12 noon service where two people (Josef Urban and Lina Torres) stood up and began to quote Scripture and preach the word of God. They both felt it necessary to speak out in objection to the video that was played that mocked Jesus and also to object to the false gospel and false Jesus that is preached at Kensington.



If you were disturbed, shaken or upset at the aforementioned incident – YOU SHOULD BE! - your soul is in grave danger! The message that is preached at Kensington and the false Jesus that is taught will, according to Scripture, lead your soul to hell. This is not about a mere difference in theology, but about your very soul. Your soul is in GREAT and SERIOUS danger at Kensington! But we ask you not to just take our word for it but take the time to explore some of the writings and sermons of some of the most respected men in Christianity today and from the past. Please don’t dismiss this warning... your soul depends on it. RUN FOR YOUR LIFE FROM KENSINGTON AND THEIR TEACHINGS!!!

Article found here:

http://www.obeyjesus.net/why.htm

 2007/3/26 10:49
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: church rebuked

Why do we preach so much against other Christians when there are millions around the world who have never heard the name of Jesus?

Philippians 1:15-18

Quote:
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

18 [b]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do [i]rejoice[/i], yea, and will rejoice[/b].



Are you rejoicing that Christ is preached, even by someone who may not necessarily believe the same things you do, or out of wrong motives... Paul, wrapped in chains could rejoice that the name of Jesus was being preached even though the preachers were filled with all kinds of evil and sin. We sit and judge churches, preach against them, if you have that much of a problem with *that* church, don't go there!

And when you find the perfect church, don't go there either, you'll just end up messing it up.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/3/26 11:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Why do we preach so much against other Christians



Why do you assume that because people gather in a building on Sunday morning with the word "church" written on it that they are Christians?

Warning people that the message they're hearing is "another gospel" and based on "another jesus" seems biblical when called to do so.

Quote:
We sit and judge churches, preach against them, if you have that much of a problem with *that* church, don't go there!



Someone should have told Jeremiah not to go and preach against the temple crowd if that were the case, it would have saved him a lot of grief and heart ache.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/3/26 11:41









 Re:

Would you have given the same advise to Jeremiah or some of the other prophets? After all the priest and the prophets of that day probably had some of the message right..even if they weren't living it.

Paul was rejoicing because the GOSPEL was preached....even though the motives in doing so were wrong. Nowhere do you find Paul rejocing over a false Gospel. A Gospel that cost nothing, no repentance needed, and that embraces the world.

If you read the rest of Paul's letters he wasn't one to just let sin go on:

21What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

Do you not believe God would send peole to rebuke and correct? Have you ever read the life of George Fox? Was he in error?

 2007/3/26 11:48
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Why do we preach so much against other Christians when there are millions around the world who have never heard the name of Jesus?



I understand your thinking here but, if we are to apply this logic then we must question why Jeremiah, for example, wasn't sent to speak to the Gentile nations instead of Judah. You see, God has always worked through a church, a corparate expression of His glory. When that expression is corrupted it needs to be rebuked and restored in love. Isn't this what Jesus did with the churches in Asia?

Quote:
Are you rejoicing that Christ is preached, even by someone who may not necessarily believe the same things you do, or out of wrong motives.



Indeed Paul could rejoice that Christ was preached even if only part of the gospel was preached, but, in his letters he clearly spoke out against contention, envy, strife, and pretense which was the manner of the preaching he was referring to in Philippians 1. I think Paul's point is that God may make use of such things even though the speakers themselves may be disqualified. However, a full expression of Christ is what God desires. Therefore, in love and compassion, seeking to restore, such preachers will be rebuked.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/3/26 12:02Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

There is probably a remnant in that church, just as there was a remnant during the times of the prophets and during the time of George Fox. There are probably also people among your congregation that are damned, and many 'hell-fire, bible beating' preachers who haven't been sealed for the day of judgement.

My point is simply this, why do we preach against other churches when there are people outside of our church, outside of that other church that have never heard the Gospel.

Paul could rejoice, because despite the fact that these men's motives were wrong, that their hearts were filled with deceipt, that they were preaching a compromised gospel, the gospel was still being preached.

You see, when we talk about Jesus we are opening a door, even if someone doesn't know what he's talking about God can still use that opportunity. I went to that church's website and I didn't find anything that jumped out at me as heretical or worth preaching against -just because they don't preach about Jesus the same way that you do doesn't mean they're wrong. And even if they are wrong, they may get some people to open up their bibles -and I want to make one thing straight.

If you put a bible in someone's hands, they could hear luke-warm and heritical sermons all their lives, but if they dig into the word they're going to meet the creator of the universe -a holy and mighty God that transcends human churches and human preaching. If that church, even if they preacha compromised gospel is putting bibles in the hands of people then they're taking at least one step in the right direction.

If that church is getting people to think about Jesus, even if they're not getting the whole picture, that's a door that Jesus is going to use to enter their lives -at least some of them.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/3/26 12:02Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

Paul warned about another Jesus being preached.

Shouldn't you be weeping that they made a mockery out of Jesus? That they were laughing at ill humour agaist God?

Why aren't you grieved and in brokeness that Jesus was mocked by those who profess to be His children? It is better to be mocked by the lost, that don't know the truth then by those who claim to know the truth.

Where is your heart?


_________________
Lisa

 2007/3/26 12:10Profile









 Re:

Sure...people get saved in lukewarm churches. However, just because God works good doesn't mean the error should be overlooked. I think your statement that we need to be preaching to those who have not heard the gospel instead is wrong. It's not a matter of "need" it's a matter of what God is leading one to do. If God's leading one to go the the streets and preach..then go do it. If God's leading one to go rebuke a church...then go do it.

If one is sitting in a church and they are mocking Christ then stand up for Christ.

When I see brothers and sisters, who stand up for Christ, I am thankful. They refuse to let others "christians" mock Jesus and shame His name. I see believers who are concerned for God's Glory and God's sheep more than the acceptance of men.

I pray God would raise up more believers to confront the false Gospel being preached in many churches. May God find men He can use to wake up those who the "church" is lulling to sleep.

 2007/3/26 12:17









 Re:

I guess I should state that I am loosely involved with this, as these are members of my fellowship who are coming against our local megachurch. I can tell you that hundreds of people from kensington are downloading Ray Comfort, Paul Washer, and David Wilkerson messages on false conversion and false grace because of this.

I thank God someone came and rebuked me for listening to joyce meyer and gave me a Ray Comfort sermon to listen too. God used it to radically change my lukewarm walk.

I was able to spend 3 1/2 hours last night with a small group leader from kensington who emailed us about the incident. He was cut to the heart over what the Lord spoke through me to him. He is meeting with a large group of people today from kensington to explain whats going on and hopefully have them examine themselves because they are a lukewarm group in general.

Glory be to God for any fruit that comes through this.

in Christ - Jim

 2007/3/26 12:37
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

myfirstlove,

I am grieved for the sake of Jesus... over millions all over the world who are being cast into an eternal hell without a chance to ever hear the name of Jesus.

Several years ago there was a TV show in Britain that had a comedic portrayal of Jesus, do you know who got it taken off the air? I'd like to answer 'the Christian church.' No, it was Muslims! Muslims complained that the television show was making a lewd portayal of one of their prophets!

It pains me that we preach Jesus as a 'buddy,' someone that we can poke fun at, someone to hang out with. Not that Jesus wasn't those things, but in the description of Jesus in Revelation is an entirely different story. We are told that we are able to approach the throne with confidence, but John, the one whom Jesus loved fell down as dead.

Revelation 1:10-

Quote:
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17[b]And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead[/b]. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.



Even though John had a close relationship with Jesus in his human form, John could not stand when he encountered the glorified Jesus! This is not someone to be mocked, or made fun of... he isn't your buddy and certainly isn't going to find the humor in any video that portrays him without reverence.

But we cannot forget that Jesus is also grace, and though our eyes have been open to respect him in this way, we should not condemn those who haven't seen him this way. A lot of people get hung up on the love of Christ and never grow in their faith... we're so quick to rebuke to cut someone down when we should be admonishing them for the sake of their spiritual growth.

One of the best sermons i've ever heard on the nature of the glorified Christ in revelation was given by Mark Driscol at Mars Hill Church in Seattle. Many people are pretty tough on Mars Hill because of it's lax teachings on music, drinking, clothing etc... but when I visited I heard a sermon about Jesus that knocked me down to my knees.

Maybe I'm lax with this other church because I'm willing to see them with grace, or because I'd rather be on the mission field than accusing my fellow believers.

Search your heart thismorning and see if you are right with Christ, if you have a full understanding of his grace and mercy before you seek to admonish someone else over their lack thereof. Test yourself in light of the Spirit and scripture, cleanse your own heart of any unrighteousness.

I firmly believe that Paul was light years ahead of me when he wrote the words I have already written from Philippians... although this doesn't mean that I can't live a higher dimensional life like him. He didn't let other people's lack of faith stumble his own. We also have to remember that he PLANTED these churches that he was writing to (except for the one in Rome) and that he had authority to rebuke them, and to warn them against false teachers.

When you have been raised up to leadership in a congregation, then you have the task and the burden to rebuke the church -and it's a burden, sometimes it seems like many people take pleasure in rebuking others... i firmly believe that Paul grieved and prayed for hours before saying one word or penning one line of scripture.

I love Leonard Ravenhill, I can say Amen after almost every paragraph that he's ever written... but he was in a role of spiritual leadership, he was a Pastor to Pastors... most of the preaching that we hear by him was done in his 70's and 80's, he was a man who spent two or more (usually more) hours in prayer a day... one of the greatest lines I've ever read from him is, '[b]We never pray about the folks that we gossip about, and we never gossip about the folks that we pray for.[/b]'

Even if these people were right in rebuking this church, have we prayed for this church or do we just glory in the rebuke that they were given, do we *cheer* for the rebuker... or are we praying for the rebuked. Where is our heart? We say that we want them to experience genuine salvation, a full gospel... when you read this did you stop to think and pray for this congregation? Did you put them on your prayer list? Did you even think to pray for them at all? [b]Sure their salvation is important, but is it important enough for you to spend even 15 seconds in prayer for[/b]? I hope you can see that I'm frustrated!


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/3/26 12:44Profile





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