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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : the issue of speaking in tongues

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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I have considered the possibility that many who were in that upper room were preaching this same word, either dispersed throughout the crowd or together, although this isn't the scriptural reference.


The assumption here may be that they were 'preaching'; that is not specifically stated. If they were praising God, which I think is the normal function of other tongues, it may be that their hearers just heard 'them speaking in our tongues/languages the great things of God'. That description would fit 'praise' every bit as much as 'preaching'.

You are right, I think, in drawing attention to the fact that Peter is the preacher in this chapter, and he stands to preach which indicates that the others remained sitting which was their posture when the Spirit came.

So we have 120+ lost in wonder, love and praise, and one man preaching intelligently in Greek for all to hear.

Have you ever noticed this passage...“Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, [b]and with them an hundred and twenty priests[/b] sounding with trumpets:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that [b]then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord[/b];” (2Chr 5:12-13 KJVS)This is the record of God coming in power to take up residence in his temple. Did you notice how many priests there were? Is this one of the Spirit's little clues as to the significance of the Acts 2 event?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/27 11:13Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3705
Ca.

 Re:

Acts 2:5-8 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Is this not speaking and hearing in languages of all but understanding by the Holy Spirit and one in accord with the coming of the promised prayer of Christ, that is the "Comforter" who will be with you forever, oops, "I mean in you for ever."

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/3/27 12:15Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Is this not speaking and hearing in languages of all but understanding by the Holy Spirit and one in accord with the coming of the promised prayer of Christ, that is the "Comforter" who will be with you forever, oops, "I mean in you for ever."


I lost my way in that sentence, can you express it differently?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/27 15:30Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3705
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: By Ron

""But this moves the miracle from the 120+ to the vast crowd that were listening. The Acts reference is to a miracle of 'speaking'. Your understanding converts it to a miracle of 'hearing'. This would not then be 'speaking in tongues' but 'hearing in tongues'""

Question: By Phillip

"Is this not speaking and hearing in languages of all but understanding by the Holy Spirit and one in accord with the coming of the promised prayer of Christ, that is the "Comforter" who will be with you forever, oops, "I mean in you for ever."



Question: By Ron

Have you ever noticed this passage...
“Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord;” (2Chr 5:12-13 KJVS)
This is the record of God coming in power to take up residence in his temple. Did you notice how many priests there were? Is this one of the Spirit's little clues as to the significance of the Acts 2 event?

Answer: Phillip

Yes an outward significance for their outward worship and sacrifice and hearing of the High Priest that made sacrifice for the people often.

Acts 2, The appearance and filling of the Holy Spirit and birth of the High Priest in them, which Paul would explain clearly 15 years later that is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory" Col 1:27. And also the Holy Spirit of promise.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Who came at Pentecost and is now in those Sealed and Baptized into one Spirit, which is also the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

And this, is this not the same picture, the wife of God concerned about the things of this world. The virgin bride of Christ concerned about the things of the Spirit we are baptized into.

1Cr 7:34 There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.

Taking this mystery of Paul that now by the Christ in us and by the Holy Spirit of Promise we are able to discern and understand this mystery of being Born Again by Spirit and Water to a new Life in Christ Jesus our Lord, and Now called son's of God in Christ Jesus being fellow heirs with Him.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/3/27 16:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:
This is not a heavenly language

Brother if you don't believe in the speaking of an unknown tongue, let it be, lest haply you find yourself even arguing against God.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [b]unknown tongue speaketh not unto men[/b], but unto God: for [b]no man understandeth him[/b]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.



This unknown tongue that Paul is speaking about is NOT KNOWN TO MAN, it can't be understood by man. Thats why men who don't believe in this, mock it and say that it's not of God. However, In the Spirit, he speaketh mysteries.

This is not the same tongues as what the Spirit gave them the utterance on the day of Pentecost. What they spoke were KNOWN tongues. Lets consider what went on there:

Quote:
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with diverse tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.



What was the result of those who heard them speak in these diverse languages?

Quote:
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,



Paul speaks about a KNOWN tongue which men can understand and he speaks about an UNKNOWN tongue which no man can understand, but is speaking to God and also uttering mysteries.

Now tell me, what language do you know of in the world that speaketh into the Spirit, mysteries??

 2007/3/27 16:50
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re:

Why would Paul desire for them all to speak in seperate languages if they could already communicate to each other within their small church community? 1Cor 14:1-5

Also note Paul is not mocking tongues he's calling for the proper use, and reaffirming that the proclamation of the Gospel is the most important gift

 2007/3/27 17:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Compliments wrote:
Quote:
This is not a heavenly language

Brother if you don't believe in the speaking of an unknown tongue, let it be, lest haply you find yourself even arguing against God.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [b]unknown tongue speaketh not unto men[/b], but unto God: for [b]no man understandeth him[/b]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.



This unknown tongue that Paul is speaking about is NOT KNOWN TO MAN, it can't be understood by man. Thats why men who don't believe in this, mock it and say that it's not of God. However, In the Spirit, he speaketh mysteries.

This is not the same tongues as what the Spirit gave them the utterance on the day of Pentecost. What they spoke were KNOWN tongues. Lets consider what went on there:

Quote:
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with diverse tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.



What was the result of those who heard them speak in these diverse languages?

Quote:
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,



Paul speaks about a KNOWN tongue which men can understand and he speaks about an UNKNOWN tongue which no man can understand, but is speaking to God and also uttering mysteries.

Now tell me, what language do you know of in the world that speaketh into the Spirit, mysteries??


When I received this gift it was simply in the form of strange words coming into my head, not words made up.

It took some time before I was confident enough to speak anything aloud, even when alone. There were words, phrases, sentences, with intonation and expression, pauses etc, just as in any language. (Don't believe it if anyone says tongues is meaningless babble - the genuine gift certainly isn't!)

It was, and still is, very matter of fact, certainly nothing to boast of.

I find this gift especially useful if there's a need for prayer and I don't know how or what to pray. If the Lord gives the words and His Spirit takes them before the Throne, how can such a prayer not be answered?

There's no chance of putting in our own thoughts and ideas, because this gift bypasses our mind.

Jeannette

 2007/3/27 17:26









 Re:

Jeanette said:

Quote:
It took some time before I was confident enough to speak anything aloud, even when alone. There were words, phrases, sentences, with intonation and expression, pauses etc, just as in any language. (Don't believe it if anyone says tongues is meaningless babble - the genuine gift certainly isn't!)

I hear ya Sis, that just about sums it up for me too. I sounded like a new born baby, but as I continued with it, in time it developed, just like any language. At first, I thought it wasn't real because I heard others around me speak it so wonderfully and I was afraid to utter a peep, but my Pastor encouraged me on.

Thank you for sharing that, sometimes I think I am all alone in my experinces. :-P

 2007/3/27 19:44
jeffutah
Member



Joined: 2006/8/24
Posts: 13
Ogden Utah USA

 Re:

i have such a hard time with praying in tongues
i started praying in tongues before any one told me that i couldn't,
i had to hold my hands over my ears so i wouldn't hear it as much it sounded so foreign.
most baptist are not big on that particular gift,
when i told my pastor he was a little surprised and said that he prefers to pray in his own language but didn't beat me up about it. so i have tried to read and listen to any one that had any thing to say about the subject.

so basically I'm still wondering if it does any one any good as far as edifying prayer life and spiritual life i have heard so many conflicting versions that i really don't practice that form of prayer.though i still think about often and every once i awhile i let it go it seems to be always on my lips.
jeff :-o


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jeff ashbridge

 2007/3/28 1:40Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
[u]Compliments on 2007/3/27 21:50:14[/u]
Now tell me, what language do you know of in the world that speaketh into the Spirit, mysteries??


This is not an answer to your question just a comment on it. The word 'mystery' in the NT does not signify 'mysterious' but rather 'secret'. It was used in many different contexts but was also used of 'lovers' secrets'. I love the idea that when I speak with other tongues my spirit is sharing its 'lover's secrets' with its Lover.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/28 4:16Profile





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