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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: the issue of speaking in tongues

Quote:

Suord wrote:
i from Ghana,in west africa. can anybody help me to get some scriptures in the Bible that give a clear cut resonse to speaking in tongues.
i want t know weather it is right that everybody can speak tongues in church as a substitute to prayer and delibrately stop when you want to.



[b]Romans 8:26[/b] [color=990000]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with [b]groanings which cannot be uttered.[/b][/color]
I've noticed there seem to be some confusion with this verse.
I will show you the best examples of this

[b]Mark 8:12[/b] [color=990000]And he [b]sighed deeply in his spirit,[/b] and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.[/color]
[b]Mark 7:34[/b] [color=990000]And looking up to heaven, [b]he sighed,[/b] and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
[b]John 11:33[/b] [color=990000]When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he [b]groaned in the spirit,[/b] and was troubled,[/color]

He did not speek in toungues.

Toungue is no diferent that any other Gift of the Spirit, you can not have it from your own volition.
In other words, one can not choose to speek in toungues.
The Gift must come upon you.

Think of it this way:
As one prays, it is like when one fills his cup fuller and fuller with cold water.
As one can not get any fuller "in the spirit" God comes and drops an ice cube in and then you over flow.

However, one may groan at any time they feal troubled in there spirit.

 2007/3/25 10:04Profile









 Re:

Quote:
was the Eunuch saved then if he did not have the Spirit?

There are Three that bare record in Heaven, "The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost".

When the Eunuch received Jesus Christ he received the Spirit of Christ, the WORD.
Quote:
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Eunuch received the SEED, Christ.

We are justified by faith, not by receiving the holy Spirit. There is no doubt in my mind that the Eunuch received the holy Spirit when he returned to Jerusalem the following year or whenever, as it says that,

Quote:
Acts 8:27 Philip arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace Queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,



 2007/3/25 12:50
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

"In every instance that the holy Ghost was imparted, they all spoke in tongues. The Eunuch did not speak in tongues because he was not filled with the Spirit, only that he was baptized in water in the name of Jesus at the hand of Philip. Philip was in Samaria previous to his meeting with the Eunuch, and signs and miracles were given at the hand of Philip, but he had no authority to impart the holy Ghost to any of those persons. When Peter and John heard that Samaria received the word of God, they went to Samaria that they might lay hands on them that they might receive the holy Ghost, for He had not yet fallen on none of them, only they were baptized in the name of Jesus."



But the apostles then laid hands on them and the Bible says they received the Holy Ghost, but it doesn't say they spoke in tongues.

Jordan


_________________
Jordan

 2007/3/25 14:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:
But the apostles then laid hands on them and the Bible says they received the Holy Ghost, but it doesn't say they spoke in tongues.

You are quite right!

However, we can only assume that they did because of the other instances when people were filled with the holy Ghost. We don't negate the testimony of other verses on account of one.

I said "assume" because of what Simon the sorcerer saw, consider:
Quote:
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.18 And when Simon [b]saw[/b] that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,



Simon saw something that caused him to offer money. For he said, in verse 19, "Give me this power, that on whomsoever I lay my hands on he may receive the holy Spirit"

There was a demonstration of power being exhibited when the Apostle laid their hands on the Samaritians, otherwise Simon would not have offered money.

 2007/3/25 14:55









 Re: the issue of speaking in tongues

Quote:
I want to know whether it is right that everybody can speak in tongues in Church as a substitute to prayer and delibrately stop when you want to.

You can do whatever you feel compelled to do, you are free to do so.

However there are some things to consider when your in a gathering. Firstly, if your gathering together with like minded believers, you can speak in tongues and worship, pray, do whatever you feel by the Spirit. If you want to pray in tongues, great. If you want to pray in English, that too is great.

As a general rule, if someone who is not a believer happens to come thru the door, it's best that you all stop speaking in tongues. 1 Corinthians 14, outlines the proper way of conducting ourselves.

In regards to deliberately stopping and starting of speaking in tongues. It all depends on what you mean. Are you referring to giving a message in tongues? or your prayer language?

 2007/3/25 15:17









 Re:

You are getting a lot of advice! When you pray in tongues it is not something that overtakes you and you cannot control. You can start and stop when ever you like.

I do somewhat (only somewhat!) disagree with a few on here, the Scripture below shows that tongues is a sign not for believers (we already believe!) but to the unbelievers.

This shows that the gift of tongues is intended as a sign not to those who believe but to unbelievers, but prophecy is intended not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
1 Corinthians 14.22 WEY

But let me add that I believe that some in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements has totally thrown caution (& wisdom) to the wind and worshipped the gift (tongues) instead of the Giver of the Gifts. But is that any reason to not allow the gift into Churches today? Absolutely not!

Paul said, "I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all." When I pray for people, I pray in English and in tongues, probably more so in English EXCEPT if I do not know what to pray. (Say a friend calls with a need that you have no idea how to pray but the Spirit knows and with God all things are possble if we can only believe!)

No matter what anyone tells, YOU fast, YOU pray and wait on Him (like they did in the upper room) and seek the Giver for His gifts because He gives them out as He will and according the desires of our heart.

God bless you in your seeking,
Lisa

 2007/3/25 19:56
orchardkeepe
Member



Joined: 2006/12/30
Posts: 8
Harvard, IL

 Re: The Issue of Speaking in Tougues

Quote:
This shows that the gift of tongues is intended as a sign not to those who believe but to unbelievers, but prophecy is intended not for unbelievers but for those who believe.



Let's look at the first recorded use of "tongues" in the Book of Acts:

Acts 2:1-11
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were bewildered, because they were each one hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and marveled, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs — we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God. "
NASB

The Greek word for "tongues" used here in Acts 2:3 is diamerizómenai gloóssai. In English it means "distributed languages". This is the key. There were 16 languages being spoken and HEARD and that was the miracle. This was an historical event that was taking place. The disciples were preaching and over 16 languages were being heard AT THE SAME TIME. The greek word "gloóssai" means language, and a language that can be understood by those hearing it.

For centuries this debate on tongues has taken place. Paul addresses it in I Corinthians 14, as it was an issue even in the early Church. We can only interpret this Greek word one way, "language". The gift of "tongues' is actually the gift of "languages". Who needs this gift today? Any missionary on the mission field who cannot speak the language of the people God has called them to minister to. But has anyone ever heard of this actually happening on the mission field as it did on the Day of Pentecost? No, because we have been practicing humanistic Christianity and only seek that which makes us happy, that which makes us feel important, that which makes us FEEL good inside. (Listen to [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282]"Ten Shekels and a Shirt"[/url])

Each time we see the word "tongues" used in the New Testament, 26 times, it is the same Greek word. This word cannot mean one thing in one verse and something else in another. Only one time in the New Testament is there a different word used that is interpreted as "tongues" in English: I Corinthians 14:21 where Paul quotes Isaiah 28:11 and the Hebrew word is translated into the Greek "heterogloóssois" which literally means "othertongued, i.e. a foreigner. In Acts 2:6 the Greek word "dialektos" is used which literally means "dialect" or a "mode of discourse". Again, another reference to an actual spoken language. The focus here is not on the "tongues", but rather the fact that the Gospel was heard by many in their own language and over 2,000 people were saved that day through the power of the Holy Spirit.

In the Law it is written, "By men of strange "languages" and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to Me," says the Lord.

So, after having studied this topic and I Corinthians 14 for some 30 plus years, I can draw no other conclusion than this:

The gift of "languages" is still needed today, it is still given today by the Holy Spirit when He wills, for the furtherance of His Gospel and this other "gift" that is talked about so much, that creates so much "chaos" in the Church today, is nothing more than Satan's attempt to tear the Church apart, to get the Church to disagree on yet another important "point" of doctrine. Doctrine that was created by "man" and not God.

But, how does one know if one is "filled with the Holy Spirit"? But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. Gal 5:22-26 NASB

If you are filled with the Holy Spirit, you will exhibit the fruit in your walk. If you are not filled with the Spirit, there will be no fruit. I don't see "tongues" listed above. God wants us to be filled with His fruit and He will give us the "gifts" that He wants us to have when He wants us to have them and when we will need them to make disciples of all "nations".


_________________
Dennis Norton

 2007/3/26 2:31Profile









 Re: the issue of speaking in tongues

Quote:
i want t know weather it is right that everybody can speak tongues in church as a substitute to prayer and delibrately stop when you want to.



It's like someone never having had children telling you how to raise the children you do have!! You can study the gifts of the Spirit for years but when you actually receive any of the gifts (tongues being only one), you will understand better how the Spirit operates.

You've received a lot of information FOR and AGAINST using the gift of tongues in addition to prayer but I don't live in Ghana, West Africa, again I advise YOU to fast and pray and seek HIM with all that is within you.

The most important thing... ask for wisdom to lead God's people in the direction and way HE wants them led.

God bless you in your walk with HIM!

 2007/3/26 6:02
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re:

1Cor 12:27-31 is always brought up. When you read in context Paul is explaing gifts that edify the family. Shortly after in 1Corinthias Paul states this (which is a verse no ever seems to bring up re: is tongues for all)

14:5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I do not think that you need to speak in tongues to know you are saved that ridiculous. Yet, we need to see Paul was not putting down tongues, but exhorting the proper use of them and said that all in this gentile church could speak in tongues, but he would rather have the proclaim the gospel truths.

 2007/3/26 9:43Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

Quote:
The greek word "gloóssai" means language, and a language that can be understood by those hearing it.



No, the Greek word γλωσσαι means "tongue", as in the thing in your mouth. In most cases, it is understood as "language" b\c that is what we use our tongue for. But it isn't always used in that way. And no, speaking in tongues isn't always understood by the hearer (1 Co 14:2). Exegesis, not eisegesis.

I know it wasn't your intention, so please don't take it as personal, just trying to make sure we aren't misinforming one another

;-)


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Denver McDaniel

 2007/3/26 10:19Profile





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