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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: tsed-aw-kaw

"We better be careful not to point the finger unless we point it at ourselves as well."

Goldminer, was reading from Isaiah chapter 59 yeasturday and can appreciate what you say...



[i]None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth...[/i]


[i]...there is no judgment in their goings[/i]



"Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men. We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them; In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood. And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter."



[b]...And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.[/b]

-Isaiah 59:4,8,9-14






[i]...and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?[/i]

-Michah 6:8







[i]Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rereward.[/i]

-Isaiah 58:6-8









[i]Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth [b]justice[/b] overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.[/i] -Isaiah 59:9


[b]Justice[/b]


Strong's Ref. # 6666

Romanized tsdaqah
Pronounced tsed-aw-kaw'

from HSN6663; rightness (abstractly), subjectively (rectitude), objectively (justice), morally (virtue) or figuratively (prosperity):

KJV--justice, moderately, right(-eous) (act, -ly, -ness).


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/24 1:25Profile
HopeinChrist
Member



Joined: 2005/8/8
Posts: 256


 Re:

Quote:
each one of us are unfaithful stewards at times. Just because we might only make twenty or thirty thousand a year, doesn't make us any less accountable to use God provisions for His purposes.



Thanks for the reminder, Goldminer. You are absolutely on the mark.

Quote:
God has been bringing me up short over and over again. I hear you don't need that.



I feel the Lord has been pointing to areas in my life too that are out of line with His purpose. Lord help us all to be good stewards.
Hope

 2007/3/24 7:34Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Not anything of the sort

Rather disappointing frankly. That there was given a caveat of things possibly being on the up and up with some of these 'ministries' is to miss the point altogether.

This is a butchering of words. It is neither 'Gospel' nor Christian and seems rather fallacious to separate out a disagreement with particular 'theology' as abstract to how the finances are being utilized. The whole of the slaughtering the scriptures and the sheep set aside when it is that which is the cause in the first place.

That they do some 'good things' as a smoke screen, as a sort of chump change is a pathetic attempt to lend credence to a diabolical evil they perpetuate and that with the uncanny audacity to torque scripture and trample underfoot the Son of God.

Instead of being the outrage that it warrants it's given a soft treatment. The strutting pride, the cockiness ... What is the use of accountability when the whole makeup is bankrupt, the whole leaning is towards the example they set forth by their own extravagance and bizarrely overlooked is the fact that it does indeed work! Prosperity is proven by those duped into overlooking the fact that they are the ones expensed to make it possible!

This is the height of manipulation of the worst kind, the corruption of an Enron brought forth all kinds of ramifications and yet this abomination that dares to equate a Holy God with it's bastardized and corrupted 'theology', it is no theology whatsoever, is let off the hook under a pretense of protection ... Mind boggling.

Taking it even without all the demonic spirituality, just from the business\financial standpoint ... where is the backlash of the Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX) regulatory compliance? Corporations are held to all kinds laws and structures to protect themselves and those who are associated by their business, customers. But the non-profits are essentially let off the hook under the guise of so called religion no matter how corrupt the leaders are. Strange to look into this a bit and find that the whistle blowers of corruption in these instances are protected from repercussions but that the bells and whistles are going off in all directions and yet there is no intestinal fortitude to take these people to task. How would these people possibly be able to justify their extravagance?

Ponzi-schemes are illegal and yet what better than one with spiritual attachments and a constant inflow of support duped out of the gullible, the ignorant and even the true babe in Christ. That the promised end is always set somewhere in the future is tied to 'faith' and manipulated to the point of absurdity so that even hard work and earnings become the normal result made miraculous.

Not much of one for government intrusion but in this case and with the Church so feeble as to get across a proper rebuke because itself has by and large equivocated compromise with passivity, fear of man and fear of offense because these abominations carry a name or a brush off of similitude to Christianity ... Could but pray the secular sources tear the whole structure to the ground without mercy. It is from the very pit of hell.

[i]For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.[/i]
2 Cor 2:17 (KJV)

[i]Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.[/i]
1 Tim 6:5 (KJV)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/3/24 11:17Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: "true religon"

As I sat in the back of the bus this morning three women were having a conversation. They were talking outloud and as they continued they started talking about some jeans that are called [i]true religon[/i] and that sell for something like 300 to 400 dollars a pair.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/25 0:11Profile









 Re:

We better be careful not to point the finger unless we point it at ourselves as well

Here is a great 30 minute sermon by David Kirkwood that would fit your challenge nicely...

[url=http://www.thesearchforbiblicaltruth.org/david_kirkwood2.mp3]The love of money[/url]

 2007/3/25 0:21
Dan777
Member



Joined: 2007/2/7
Posts: 21


 Re: prosperity gospel on 20/20

The problem is not the money. The problem is what you put your trust in!

You can serve God and have money, but cannot serve money and have God!

God is NOT against His children having money, He is against them being covetous.

The Church needs money for missions, for printing tracts, for paying its own light bill every month, to run the food pantry, etc, etc.

Don't talk down money! The Church needs all it can get, to get the message (Good News) out.

How could the church collect the tithes and offering every week if the people are all broke?

The problem is not in Christians having money, rather its in what kind of steward they are with it! If you faithful with a little, God will give you more.

I am Word Faith, but I do not agree with a lot of the flambouyant lifestyles some of these preachers live. They are living way beyond what they need to live on.

Personally, If I make enough to meet my needs, then the surplus should go to someone else to help meet their needs!

George Mueller had lots of money coming in, and he put it right into the ophanages he ran.

How many of the big name TV preachers out there own and operate an orphanage, or homeless shelter, a battered women shelter, etc.? You can use places like that as vehicles to preach the gospel, especially if you own them! but you need money to own them.

You can have and use money, as long as the money doesn't have and use you!

We should work to make a giving, not a living!

Dan

 2007/3/26 5:55Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Fleecing the sheep

Quote:
We better be careful not to point the finger unless we point it at ourselves as well


That is besides the point altogether.
Quote:
Don't talk down money!


Quote:
I am Word Faith, but I do not agree with a lot of the flambouyant lifestyles some of these preachers live. They are living way beyond what they need to live on.


What they are living on is the contributions given into their care. This isn't even remotely near being poor stewards it is manipulating, stealing from the sheep, a grievous evil. These are nothing but hirelings who care nothing of the sheep. There is no defense to any of this.

Interesting the emphasis is often turned either to what this has to do with our personal culpability or what the issue of money is about or what our own personal track records are, some other comparison, some other side issue.

[i]Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night. And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal. And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the LORD: I have performed the commandment of the LORD. And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed. Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the LORD hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on. And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the LORD anointed thee king over Israel? And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed. Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD? And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and have gone the way which the LORD sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal. And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.[/i]
1 Sam 15:10-23 (KJV)

[i]But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. Fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.[/i]
John 10:12-13 (KJV)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/3/26 10:12Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
George Mueller had lots of money coming in, and he put it right into the ophanages he ran.



Yes, but Mueller never [i]begged[/i]. He asked God in secret, God provided, and the funds funneled right through to the orphanages. The money never stuck to his hands. The same with Moody and John Wesley. In fact, Mueller never had more than a few dollars in his bank account. And Mueller never [i]begged[/i] in public and dishonored the name of Jesus Christ like the money-grubbers do on TV and the radio. The world makes a mockery of Christianity largely because of these word-faith guys who claim to worship an all-sufficient God, and then turn right around and pan-handle in their soft raiment. And they do it all on public media TV and radio, unabashedly in broad daylight for all the unregenerate heathen to see and mock! My friend, you will never see the apostles doing anyhting like this in scripture.

I am 100% against word-faith and prosperity teaching, for besides it incorporating within in lies from hell, it is as well a tremendous embarassment to the holy name of the Son of God.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/3/26 10:28Profile









 Re:

I had a "revelation" the other day about the whole Word of Faith Movement (prosperity doctrine)...

While it's true that some in that movement are our brethren... many are not. We decry the whole movement here as tho it was a scourge on the church, but in reality it is not. It is a false religious system like any other. How is it any different from the JW's? They both teach a different Jesus from the one in the Bible. Instead of Jesus being "a" god (JW's), he has been reduced to a "Santa Claus" who sits in heaven and bestows presents on those who deserve it because they have faith.

You get saved to get that Jaq you always wanted, or you get saved to get your cancer healed. Or better yet... get saved because Jesus has "a wonderful plan for your life!". Oh really? What if your name is Paul? Beaten, stoned, ship wrecked, hungry, cold, wet, jailed... etc. I bet Paul would have laughed if he heard "Jesus has a wonderful plan for your life!" ... I think he would have said "I wouldnt trade my life for anything, but I wouldnt exactly call it "wondeful"!"

It has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity, and therefore we should not be concerned with how they make themselves look on 20/20, other than the fact that they turn people off to the real Jesus.

Sad part is, there is just enough truth in their lies to hook many folks who refuse to study their Bibles, and are too lazy to study their Bibles... and who depend on all these so-called Christian authors to tell them about the Bible.

If someone spends more time reading some author's book about the Bible than they do reading the Bible... I dont care who it is... that person needs to be on their knees repenting. I'm all for the preaching on this site, but I'll tell ya, I see more people quoting preachers on here than I see people quoting scripture. We memorize sermons, how much Bible do we have memorized?

So and so preacher said this... so and so preacher said that... thats nice, and they may be 100% correct in their teaching...

But...

God's Word is the FINAL AUTHORITY.

WOF is no different than the JW's, the Mormons, the Catholic Church, etc etc. It's really no different than Islam... man made religion that will do nothing for you beyond this life.

Krispy

 2007/3/26 10:29









 Re:

Good comp on money featuring David Servant (former wof prosperity preacher):

The Love of Money:

http://www.thesearchforbiblicaltruth.org/love_of_money.mp3

 2007/3/26 10:37





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