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ByHisSpirit
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Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 16


 the Lords supper: throw away bread and wine which is not used?

Dear Saints,

I have a question I would like to get your advice on. Yesterday evening with our small prayer group, we wanted to have communion.

One of my fellow brothers however had an unrest in his spirit about the way we do communion. To him, once the bread and wine have been reserved for communion, they are 'set apart' for this act only of having communion. He implies that you cannot drink from this glass of wine anymore in a social setting (when the cup is not wholly emptied) or do away with the leftovers of the bread, because they have been set apart to be the means to have communion with Christ.

To him, throwing away the leftover of the wine would be sin. He refers to the Pascha meal, where the leftovers of the lamb that was eaten, were burnt in the morning, because this lamb was consacreted for one thing only. In this way he sees it similarly to the bread and wine of the Lords supper.

I guess the question is: can you throw away wine and bread or eat it later that was used for communion?

The broader question is: are there still 'sacred/set apart' things/objects? I know that we as a people are set apart wholly unto God. But is this applicable too to other natural things (like bread, wine? )

In Christ,
Fernando

 2007/3/22 3:49Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re: the Lords supper: throw away bread and wine which is not used?

Reading this made me think of Mark 7v1-7, in which the Pharisees are finding fault because the disciples of Jesus had not washed their hands before eating.

The scripture goes on to say that the Jews hold to certain traditions, which Jesus pointed out to them that they put their traditions above the word of God.

There is also the feeding of the 5,000 and the 4,000 in which Jesus says to gather up the fragments.

Whether or not the fragments got eaten is not mentioned, but they were gathered up.

So which is it?

It seems you might be in danger of setting up an unnecessary tradition, or being wasteful.

If there is that much left over, just have less next time, simple.

Also, 1 Cor 11v20-34 deals with the Lord's supper, use that to determine what you should do.

What ever you do, don't get sidetracked from what communion, Lord's supper, or whatever you want to call it means.

God bless.

 2007/3/22 5:33Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: the Lords supper: throw away bread and wine which is not used?

Quote:
To him, once the bread and wine have been reserved for communion, they are 'set apart' for this act only of having communion. He implies that you cannot drink from this glass of wine anymore in a social setting (when the cup is not wholly emptied) or do away with the leftovers of the bread, because they have been set apart to be the means to have communion with Christ.


This is more dangerous than you might imagine; it is the beginning of priestcraft. The Roman Catholic church teaches that only Roman Catholic ordained man can 'consecrate' the bread and the wine to make it the means of 'communion'. Their view is known as Transubstantiation; the Roman Catholic ministry depends up the magical power of the priest to perform miracles that others cannot perform. In their view once the priest has performed the miracle the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Christ and to eat the bread and wine is to ‘commune’ with Christ. To ‘receive Christ’ in this setting is to be saved and without this continual ‘eating and drinking’ of his body and blood there can be no salvation.

Luther modified this somewhat my talking about ‘Consubstantiation’ which means that the elements do not change but that the presence of Christ ‘passes into them’, in the way that fire might be contained in a poker. It is still a poker, unlike the RC version, but it is no longer just a poker. This is more priestcraft. It sets a distinction between priest and people and this distinction is usually seen in parts of the church building being set apart for the exclusive ministry of the priests; usually called a Sanctuary, or holy place.

The traditional evangelical view is that the bread and the wine are symbols only and if received without the corresponding spiritual reality are worthless. To foster a view that ‘something’ happens to the bread and wine is just a step towards priestcraft. If you have some bread left over, toast it, add some butter and have some real communion/fellowship! :-)


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/22 6:16Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Quote:
because the disciples of Jesus had not washed their hands before eating.


My wife is always on me about washing my hands before I eat too!
:-) Jusr wait til next time.....!


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D.Miller

 2007/3/22 7:15Profile
ByHisSpirit
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Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 16


 Re:

Thanks for all your responses!

I myself think that we are under a new convenant. New wine has been put in a new wineskin. We don't need to be circumcised as gentiles because the circumcision is a matter of the heart.

Some compared to the communion service. We are not to hold to the ceremony of the Pascha feast to commune with the Lord in the Lords supper. We need a heart that is right before Him. The external ways in which this communion is celebrated can differ and don't matter to that extent.

But the underlying question is: can 'things' (like bread and wine) under the New Convenant be holy and set apart for a specific purpose?

In Christ,
Fernando

 2007/3/22 7:55Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: the Lords supper: throw away bread and wine which is not used?



It seems that things could be set apart for a holy use if one chooses to do so, however just as David and his men ate the shewbread when they were hungry they are just elements that we consecrate to God and not gods in themselves.




Luk 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;

Luk 6:4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?

Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.



It seems to me that if David ate the temple bread, and his men also, that was only to be used for one purpose and Jesus makes mention of this not reprimanding them, we can safely say under the new covenant we can eat the left over items.

The issue, even during temple times was a heart issue. If our hearts are lifted up to our Savior and rejoicing rememberance of Him during communion it is accepted, if our hearts are not lifted up to Him during communion all the consecraction in the world will count for nothing and it might as well be tomato juice and a potato. God looks on the heart.



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KLC

 2007/3/22 8:21Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: The Lords supper:

Reply to ByHisSpirit
I see you as a peace maker and would like to offer you aid. Offered in Brotherly Love

1 Corinthians 3

1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


The Lords supper: throw away bread and wine which is not used?

Think of the bread as the body of Christ and the wine as the spirit of Christ that cleansed you and made you a servant in His Kingdom. After you have set and communed with Him at a table prepared by our Heavenly Father then the fragments you leave with are consumed in your posts, testimony, or sermon that feeds a starving world for the Word Of God. The parts that are not blessed by Christ Jesus are the loud roar we hear in the world today.

A person that doesn’t believe that Jesus has returned and is among His people today should wait till He comes to you and makes you worthy to receive His sacrifice. Who are the ones that don’t believe He is present in His Kingdom communing with?

Eddie


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Eddie

 2007/3/22 8:24Profile





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