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Discussion Forum : General Topics : I am in Highschool and I had a biology teacher who said she was Christian, but believed in evolution

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HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:
if you dismiss fossil evidence for the evolution of humans, can you also dismiss the genetic information in our cells and the cells of every living thing?

genes clearly show that, for example, that all mammals are genetically related, and further that all primates are genetically related. many of these primates still have their primordial genetic make up, as they kept to their habitat, and environmentally induced genetic changes did not alter them. we humans descended from those who left the forest and adapted to the plains some millions of years ago. the genetic changes are recorded in our dna.

if you dismiss this kind of factual information about nature and humans, how can you ever expect other humans and, in fact, God to deal with you in an honest and straightforward manner?

everything has to be conditioned to your biblical framework, or it isn't true.

tell me when we get to the edge of the sea, so we can steer the vessel away from the edge of the earth.

bub



Hi Bub,

The fossil record actually fits the Creation frame better then evolution. I just listened to a guy who is a member of Mensa speak about the Cambrian Explosion. Fossils help support Creation not tear it down.

Jordan


_________________
Jordan

 2007/3/27 16:17Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Excellent point Jordan,

Quote:
...Cambrian Explosion.



The preeminent American Evolutionist Stephen J Gould wrote his book Wonderful Life on this subject...and bascially concluded no one knows how the so-called Cambrian Explosion occured. Gould lamented on behalf of the pitiable patriarch Darwin saying "The fossil record had caused Darwin more grief than joy. Nothing distressed him more than the Cambrian explosion, the coincident appearance of almost all complex organic designs..." With admirable determination to keep the faith Gould invented a theoretical solution that he called "Decimation and Diversification" which still explained nothing, but did so with great academic acumen.

Wonderful Life at least is a good title for a book...almost worshipful. How sad that the record of wonderful life captured in the Burgess Shale has been interpreted by an idealogy that denies the Wonderful Creator.

Blessings,

MC



_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/27 17:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
Excellent point Jordan,

Quote:
...Cambrian Explosion.



The preeminent American Evolutionist Stephen J Gould wrote his book Wonderful Life on this subject...and bascially concluded no one knows how the so-called Cambrian Explosion occured. Gould lamented on behalf of the pitiable patriarch Darwin saying "The fossil record had caused Darwin more grief than joy. Nothing distressed him more than the Cambrian explosion, the coincident appearance of almost all complex organic designs..." With admirable determination to keep the faith Gould invented a theoretical solution that he called "Decimation and Diversification" which still explained nothing, but did so with great academic acumen.

Wonderful Life at least is a good title for a book...almost worshipful. How sad that the record of wonderful life captured in the Burgess Shale must interpreted by an idealogy that rejects the creator.

Blessings,

MC



Hi MC

I like:
Quote:
Gould invented a theoretical solution that he called "Decimation and Diversification" [i][b]which still explained nothing, but did so with great academic acumen.[/b][/i]


LOL Its called "smokescreen", or "blinding with science" or "pulling the wool over the eyes" (if that's an expression where you come from).

[edit] Or as in CS Lewis's novel "Perelandria". The "Eve" in the story bursts out laughing at Ransom's comment on something puzzling, "there's probably some good reason".

She said, [i]"You had nothing to say, but you put the nothing into words"[/i].

Jeannette

 2007/3/27 17:37









 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:

...Wonderful Life at least is a good title for a book...almost worshipful. How sad that the record of wonderful life captured in the Burgess Shale has been interpreted by an idealogy that denies the Wonderful Creator.


Yes, Evolution is a religion to many scientists. Some even hang a picture of Darwin on their walls, as a Catholic might have a picture of the Pope or saint.

And if you dare to touch their god of Evolution (of which Darwin is a Founder and Prophet), or even hint that perhaps its not real....!

There was a Botany lecturer who was obsessed with Evolution. One day we had a class that involved studying different sorts of flowers. The idea was that some were "primitive" and others more "advanced". We were supposed to examine them and study them in an "Evolutionary series".

The magnolia is suppposed to be "primitive" becasue the petals are (supposedly) arranged in a spiral pattern instead of two layers, petals and sepals, as in most flowers.

I noticed that this wasn't actually so, the petals are in three whorls of three, each whorl having petals of a slightly different shape to the other whorls.

The lecturer was furious when I pointed it out! He really hated us "heretical" Christian students who dared to question Evolutionary doctrine.

But science is [i]supposed[/i] to question everything, that's how new discoveries are made!

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/3/27 17:49
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:

The preeminent American Evolutionist Stephen J Gould wrote his book Wonderful Life on this subject...and bascially concluded no one knows how the so-called Cambrian Explosion occured. Gould lamented on behalf of the pitiable patriarch Darwin saying "The fossil record had caused Darwin more grief than joy. Nothing distressed him more than the Cambrian explosion, the coincident appearance of almost all complex organic designs..." With admirable determination to keep the faith Gould invented a theoretical solution that he called "Decimation and Diversification" which still explained nothing, but did so with great academic acumen.




Dr. Jackson used that quote. It's amazing that theory of evolution ever got off the ground(haha!)because Darwin and other evolutionists realize that the theory is riddled with holes. The fossil record is a major headache for them and they know it.

Jordan


_________________
Jordan

 2007/3/27 18:37Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

I saw this column today in the news and thought of this evolution thread. I copied it from Yahoo headlines just seconds ago and now I'm posting it here. It's dated 3/28/2007. Fresh from the secular press!

NEW YORK - The big dinosaur extinction of 65 million years ago didn't produce a flurry of new species in the ancestry of modern mammals after all, says a huge study that challenges a long-standing theory.

ADVERTISEMENT

Scientists who constructed a massive evolutionary family tree for mammals found no sign of such a burst of new species at that time among the ancestors of present-day animals.

Only mammals with no modern-day descendants showed that effect.

"I was flabbergasted," said study co-author Ross MacPhee, curator of vertebrate zoology at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

At the time of the dinosaur demise, mammals were small, ranging in size between shrews and cats. The long-held view has been that once the dinosaurs were gone, mammals were suddenly free to exploit new food sources and habitats, and as a result they produced a burst of new species.

The new study says that happened to some extent, but that the new species led to evolutionary dead ends. In contrast, no such burst was found for the ancestors of modern-day mammals like rodents, cats, horses, elephants and people.

Instead, they showed an initial burst between 100 million about 85 million years ago, with another between about 55 million and 35 million year ago, researchers report in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature.

The timing of that first period of evolutionary development generally agrees with the conclusions of some previous studies of mammal DNA, which argue for a much earlier origin of some mammal lineages than the fossil record does.

The second burst had shown up in the fossil record, MacPhee said. But he said the new study explains why scientists have been unable to find relatively modern-looking ancestors of the creatures known from that time: without any evolutionary boost from the dinosaur demise, those ancestors were still relatively primitive.

Some experts praised the large scale of the new evolutionary tree, which used a controversial "supertree" method to combine data covering the vast majority of mammal species. It challenges paleontologists to find new fossils that can shed light on mammal history, said Greg Wilson, curator of vertebrate paleontology at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science.

William J. Murphy of Texas A&M University, who is working on a similar project, said no previous analysis had included so many mammal species.

But, "I don't think this is the final word," he said.

The study's approach for assigning dates was relatively crude, he said, and some dates it produced for particular lineages disagree with those obtained by more updated methods.

So as for its interpretation of what happened when the dinosaurs died off, "I'm not sure that conclusion is well-founded," Murphy said.

John Gittleman, a study co-author and director of the University of Georgia Institute of Ecology, said the researchers considered a range of previously reported dates for when various lineages split. They found the overall conclusions of the study were not significantly affected by which dates they chose, he said.

Researchers should now look at such things as the rise of flowering plants and a cooling of the worldwide climate to explain why ancestors of present-day mammals took off before the dinosaurs died out, Gittleman said. The cause of the later boom is also a mystery, he said.

The study's family tree includes 4,510 species, more than 99 percent of mammal species covered by an authoritative listing published in 1993. (Nearly 300 species have since been added to the listing, but the researchers said that doesn't affect their study's conclusions.) To construct it, the researchers combined previously published work that relied on analysis of DNA, fossils, anatomy and other information.

S. Blair Hedges, an evolutionary biologist at Pennsylvania State University, said the new work "pushes the envelope in the methods and data, and that's really important."

He said the demise of the dinosaurs may have affected mammal evolution by influencing characteristics like body size rather than boosting the number of new species created. Such changes wouldn't be picked up by the new study, he noted.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/3/28 19:08Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
It's amazing that theory of evolution ever got off the ground(haha!)



I believe the theory of evolution flourished because of the philosophical climate of the 19th century. It wouldn't have been widely accepted in previous centuries, even though the idea existed in various forms since at least the ancient Greeks. Consider that none of it's fundamental conclusions actually required 19th century science or technology. A similar philosophic opportunity occurred for Marxism, which depended on a purely materialistic interpretation of civilization and history in order to 'make sense.'

Evolution begins with a metaphysical argument (or at least position) which is then supported with physical vindication.

Which is why you have articles like the one Paul West supplied, where the real world observation doesn't fit the assumptions made about it. Now someone will need to write a theoretical solution for this unexpected inconsistency. Some graduate student or professor somewhere is about to become a celebrity in the academic world!

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/28 19:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
Quote:
It's amazing that theory of evolution ever got off the ground(haha!)



I believe the theory of evolution flourished because of the philosophical climate of the 19th century. It wouldn't have been widely accepted in previous centuries, even though the idea existed in various forms since at least the ancient Greeks. Consider that none of it's fundamental conclusions actually required 19th century science or technology. A similar philosophic opportunity occurred for Marxism, which depended on a purely materialistic interpretation of civilization and history in order to 'make sense.'

Evolution begins with a metaphysical argument (or at least position) which is then supported with physical vindication.

Which is why you have articles like the one Paul West supplied, where the real world observation doesn't fit the assumptions made about it. Now someone will need to write a theoretical solution for this unexpected inconsistency. Some graduate student or professor somewhere is about to become a celebrity in the academic world!

MC


I'm sure you are right MC, well put!

Its indeed the PHILOSOPHY of Evolution that is the real culprit. Similar to Pelmanism, or more modern versions of that error. Don't know much about it but my father had some booklets (on it). It seemed to be a kind of self-help system of positive thinking. One quote was, "EVERY DAY, IN EVERY WAY, I'M GETTING BETTER AND BETTER." Evolution in a nutshell, only Evolution is applied to all living things. Except that observation and experiment (such as breeding experiments) indicate that it just isn't true!

As with Evolution, the Bible calls people who hold such philosophies stupid! ("the FOOL says in his heart there is no God")

Bub, you believe in God! You don't REALLY want to align yourself with such fools do you?

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2007/3/30 16:40





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