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Discussion Forum : General Topics : I am in Highschool and I had a biology teacher who said she was Christian, but believed in evolution

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 Re:

Krispy wrote

Quote:
No, you must believe in creation or evolution. Choose you this day whom you will serve. Christ or Darwin.



I choose Truth, which led me to Jesus, and tells me things about the obeservable world that God, in His infinate compassion and mercy, decided not to reveal to us in Genesis - so we could explore His marvellous universe ourselves and always uncover some new truth about cirque glaciers, or giant squid, or a burrowing dinosaur... I don't read Genesis to learn where the gold is in northern Alberta, I hire a geologist... But I won't ask him a thing about salvation. When I wanted to know the way to God, I searched my scriptures, searched the internet, and eventually found SI, listened to Tozer, and was converted. And if I want to find out about small dinosaur fossils that have feathered wings, reptilian skin, and a toothed mouth - or giant dinosaurs with beaks... I'll consult with paleontologists or at least buy a good book on the subject.

And don't you dare try to tell me I'm doomed for all eternity because I can't believe in Jesus [i]and[/i] believe what scientists tell me about observable reality.

Now that the Holy Spirit's come, I don't think an alien invasion would shake my faith in Jesus... especially if they looked like locusts...

ChrisJD said
Quote:
...by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned



That still doesn't explain everything. Like why did veritable killing machines like Lions have canine teeth in the Garden - if they were herbavores before "death entered into the world"? Did mosquitoes not suck blood at that time?

 2007/3/22 19:51
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
but don't you believe that God couses the weather?



Of course!

I was simply questioning putting Darwinism in the same 'scientific' category as weather measurement. Witness that the bible discusses God's interference with weather...something that is philosophically illegal in Darwininian evolution as well as any unformitarian (cyclic, unchanging, mechanical) view of natural history.

Taco, merely by crediting God with causing and influencing biological life you are no longer believing in Evolution...you believe in Intelligent Design!

(EDIT:) Brother, in case I seemed out of line 'telling' you what you believed I felt a few quotes from evolutionists were in order. Note how they use evolution as a philosophical stepping ground for pushing God out of creation. This is why I felt confident to say you do not believe in Evolution...at least not according to definition of the Evolutionist.

"Darwinism removed the whole idea of God as the creator of organisms from the sphere of rational discussion. Darwin pointed out that no Supernatural designer was needed; since natural selection could account for any new form of life, there is no room for a supernatural agency in its evolution." (Julian Huxley, "At Random, A Television Preview", in Evolution after Darwin, 1960 p. 41.)

"I use the word humanist to mean someone who believes that man is just as much a natural phenomenon as an animal or plant; that his body, mind and soul were not supernaturally created but are products of evolution, and that he is not under the control or guidance of any supernatural being or beings, but has to rely on himself and his own powers." (Julian Huxley, American Humanist Association, promotional brochure.)

"With this single argument the mystery of the universe is explained, the deity annulled, and a new era of infinite knowledge ushered in." (Ernst Haeckel, "The Riddle of the Universe", 1899, p. 337.)

"Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus' earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the SORRY REMAINS of the SON of GOD. If Jesus was not the redeemer who died for our sins, and this is what evolution means, then CHRISTIANITY is NOTHING." (G.R. Bozarth, "The Meaning of Evolution", American Atheist, 9-78, Vol. 20, p. 30

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/22 19:51Profile









 Re:

Sorry for getting mad, Krispy.

 2007/3/22 20:05
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
Taco, merely by crediting God with causing and influencing biological life you are no longer believing in Evolution...you believe in Intelligent Design!



Quote:
We can observe the complete cycle of water, air currents, and temperature in our world.



So where is God in the weather system? It rained today. Which bit of the weather system did God step into to cause it to rain? You are missing my point. The weather system observable and explainable as it is, is the work of God.

We can all accept that. We see no contradiction. I am merly pointing out that evolution being the work of God does not contradict him being creator. I am not talking about him stepping in every now and then to influence the system.

 2007/3/22 20:05Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

I don't think we are talking about a meaningful contradiction.

Yet you should be mindful when telling others you believe in evolution...you may not be aware of it but most of the scientific community understands this term to mean a strictly naturalistic godless system. If you still prefer to identify yourself with Evolution, you should understand this is how the average Evolutionist will intepret your beliefs. To the Evolutionist, God (at least the God of the bible) is a primitive social myth, the obsolete Deus ex machina that modern science has replaced.

Intelligent Design resembles Evolutionary doctrine is every way except that I.D. allows for the influence of God. Yet, Evolutionists are as opposed to I.D as vehemently as they are opposed to short Earth creationism. If I.D agrees with the Evolutionist that there were billions of years, macro-transformation, and the cone of simple to complex life development, then where does their indignant pugnacity and tryannical rejection of I.D stem from?

From the heart.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/22 20:15Profile
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Here is a quote from an interview with scientist Kenneth Miller, that I like.

Quote:
ActionBioscience.org: In your book, Finding Darwin’s God, you write, “in nature, elusive and unexplored, we will find the Creator at work.” How is your view different from that of creationists or proponents of intelligent design, who argue against evolution?

Miller: I think the biggest difference, and the most direct way to pinpoint that difference, is to say that creationists inevitably look for God in what science has not yet explained or in what they claim science cannot explain. Most scientists who are religious look for God in what science does understand and has explained. So the way in which my view is different from the creationists or intelligent design proponents is that I find knowledge a compelling reason to believe in God. They find ignorance a compelling reason to believe in God.

 2007/3/22 20:27Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Corey,


"That still doesn't explain everything. Like why did veritable killing machines like Lions have canine teeth in the Garden - if they were herbavores before "death entered into the world"? Did mosquitoes not suck blood at that time?"

In regards to Romans 5:12...


I agree, it doesn't explain much about what those things might have been for, but it does seem straighforward in saying there wasn't any death before Adam's sin. Soooo... what about those teeth and so on...


Well, I think if we take the whole revelation of Scripture, I would not find it hard to imagine that God designed the creatures with this cursed world in mind(see Romans 8:20-22 for example), that is, at least insomuch as He planned for the contingencies of life in this world, in their original designs.


We're only left to imagine ways in which these things which seem to us now to be only suitable for life in such a world as ours, full of violence, how these things could have once been usefull otherwise, and benign.

Not meaning at all to be curt or overly simplistic, but I think of the scripture which says all things are possible with God.



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/22 20:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
We're only left to imagine ways in which these things... could have once been useful otherwise, and benign.



But herein lies the central problem in the creationists' argument: we, as Christians, worship the Christ, who is the Truth. We cannot "imagine ways" to prove sciences' square pegs into the Bible's round holes.

If I were worried about losing the presence of the Holy Ghost because what scientists observe about the Universe suggest it's a couble billion years older than originally thought... I'd have to sit down, pray, and reassess my faith. Because my God is the God of Truth, not the God of "I hope it's like this".

I, for one, can't wait to hear about the next big discovery in astronomy, in paleontology, or in archaology. And I personally hope that when I meet all of you beyond the pearly gates, Jesus might lend a small angel who's not working for the next millennium to take me on a tour of the Universe.

MY 200TH POST!!! YAY FOR ME!!!

 2007/3/22 21:04
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I find knowledge a compelling reason to believe in God. They find ignorance a compelling reason to believe in God.



Thanks for sharing this Taco.

I am a representative of the "they" Miller talks about. His comments about me are false. He is misinformed.

I can interact with all of the data he has access to without exluding God from it's existence. There is no scientific reason to exclude God from nature. The decision is essentially metaphysical.

This is why I am opposed to identifying myself with Evolution. Words have public meaning, at least among the people who control the words. We cannot synthesis our beliefs with their terminology without altering our beliefs. The true Evolutionist repulses any fraternity with the Christian...so why do we feel the need to identify with their cause?

Some of us can't believe in a young Earth. That is perhaps understandable. Yet an intellectual struggle with young earth creationism does not mean that the only alternative for belief is in a doctrine that in it's most unconcealed form is inherently materialistic, athiestic and the philosophic pulpit for all the moral relativity and intellectual dispair that plagues western civilization.

Blessings brother,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/22 21:05Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

Quote:
and the earth is only 6,000 yrs old, ya'll.



Krispy, you are so far off. By my calculations, the earth is much closer to 10,000 y/o ;-)

Hey Bubba, tell me how evolution explains the transparency of the human cornea so we could see our predators and not be extinguished, and then we can start discussing evolution. Besides, my Bible tells me that God formed man out of the dust of the ground. In your spritual/allegorical Bible, does "dust" mean apes? How many millions/billions/trillions/quadrillions/sextillions of years does it take to get living, breathing cells to form in a vacuum? Sorry dude, evolution as taught in biology books is absolutely, unequivacally incompatible with the Bible of Jesus, Paul, Peter et. al


_________________
Denver McDaniel

 2007/3/22 21:21Profile





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