Your blasphemy of comparing the Bible with an Ouija board is deeply unsettling.
To PreachP and Bubba
Boys! Boys! Stop it at once!!!
(Just remembering I was once a schoolmarm 8-) )
PP expressed his opinion a bit too strongly and Bub took offence.
Actually, I think you both have a point - up to a point.
Wrong use of the Bible can be at best superstition, at worst divination (using the Bible in a similar way to using an ouija board), as PP says. I hate "Promise boxes" too, for that reason, yet knew a few sincere (if untaught) believers who used them.
However, it isn't helpful to jump on someone for misusing the Bible until you know exactly where they are coming from.
Bub, I don't think that its [i][u]usually[/u][/i] healthy to leaf through the Bible and put your finger on a verse at random, even if you ask the Lord for guidance in doing it, but the Lord looks on the heart.
I haven't used that method deliberately, but it can be amazing how the Lord sometimes directs to a verse or passage that is the exact answer to an immediate question or need. It might not even be the obvious answer you would expect from your knowledge of Scripture, but the Spirit applies it to your heart in such a way as to be the needed Word in season.
Bub, do you only attend Quaker meetings, or do you also get fellowship elsewhere? If not, I think it would be good to go to other kinds of church as well, to get more balance, and a wider outlook on different ways of worship and Bible teaching.
| 2007/3/22 13:46|
Ron, the Spirit i am listening to is the Holy Spirit. I do these readings during Quaker Unprogrammed Meeting for Worship and as Jesus promised, where two or more are gathered in His name.. . He is with us.
Bub, don't [i]assume[/i] that, even in a meeting such as this, everyone is always directed by the Holy Spirit. Or that meeting in Jesus name and with sincere and earnest desire to worship God, always gives protection from deceiving spirits.
Quote:Actually, two of us did address the issue, mine was before you wrote this. Did you read it? It seems you didn't because you still say: [i]"the disciples do nothing to Judas when they learn of what he is to do (betraying Jesus.) this just makes no sense at all"[/i]
The real telling part of your post is that you make no effort to address the issue. that the disciples do nothing to Judas when they learn of what he is to do (betraying Jesus.) this just makes no sense at all. but you are too happy to kill the messenger and smear the Holy Spirit!
Actually it makes perfect sense in the circumstances. All you need is a little imagination of how things must have been with the argumentative, noisy gang of disciples (who were probably nearly all young men, as has been said).
When I've been out for a meal with a bunch of friends I can usually only have a conversation with those next to or directly opposite me, because everyone's talking at once! And they reclined at table in those days, which is why John was "leaning on Jesus' bosom", which would probably made conversation with anyone not right next to you even more difficult.
Read the account in John 13, which gives details missed in Matthew.
[color=000099]21 When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, Most assuredly, I say to you, aone of you will betray Me. 22 Then the disciples looked at one another, perplexed about whom He spoke.
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24 Simon Peter therefore motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke.
25 Then, leaning back on Jesus breast, he said to Him, Lord, who is it?
26 Jesus answered, It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it. And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, What you do, do quickly. 28 But no one at the table knew for what reason He said this to him.[/color]
It seems from this that John had no opportunity, or was too stunned ("[i]JUDAS[/i]!!!??? Judas of all people???...Surely there must be some mistake...") to tell Peter until afterwards. In the circumstances that's not surprising.
As I said before, why not simply trust the Lord that He caused the Bible to be written? Surely it was He who has protected its essential message, even through many centuries, copyings and translations later.
Can you have faith that the written Word is therefore reliable, even if certain things don't [i]seem[/i] to "make sense".
| 2007/3/22 14:15|
I appreciate the explanations of the Disciples failure to act, it makes more sense for me now.
I think I bust was composing an answer when you had already written this, so missed it. I was wondering why you seemed to make no comment on the explantions1
| 2007/3/22 14:20|
i'm understanding more about why i was led to do that particular reading of Matt. and post my question.
| 2007/3/22 14:25|
| Re: Just to repeat an important point|
Bub, don't assume that, even in a meeting such as this, everyone is always directed by the Holy Spirit. Or that meeting in Jesus name and with sincere and earnest desire to worship God, always gives protection from deceiving spirits.
It is vital to realise this. Believe me, I've been there. On more than one occasion I was utterly sincere, prayed earnestly for guidance, and still ended up deceived - thinking that something was of God - from the Holy Spirit -when it wasn't. Actually the deception I unwittingly gave myself to was a form of divination using the Bible! Only by the Grace of God was I released from it.
Sincerity, prayer, being with others who are also gathered in His name, in itself is no protection.
...Especially if you don't know what the Bible really says or haven't had at least some "systematic" teaching or study.
We have to have the Word and the Spirit, and we have to trust what the Bible says, and truly want to do the Lord's will, and then He will protect us, even when we do make mistakes.
Take care, Brother, that's all I ask.
| 2007/3/22 14:30|