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 Re: Relief

Wonderful to have some "cognitive dissonance", found it really helpful in many a denominational construct amongst a number of other items.

Ugh. I'd almost say the dissonance was what kept me from the Holy Ghost for so long - excepting, of course, the fact that a world-locked sinner like me was incapable of my own salvation and that Jesus worked in me when it pleased Him...

...which makes me wonder if I'm a calvanistic arminian... thinking... computing... insufficient data...

 2007/3/20 23:58


A few years ago it was fairly popular practice for Bible teachers to claim to find in the Scriptures confirmation of almost every new discovery made by science. Apparently no one noticed that the scientist had to find it before the Bible teacher could, and it never seemed to occur to anyone to wonder why, if it was there in the Bible in such plain sight, it took several thousand years and the help of science before anyone saw it.

Now, I believe that everything in the Bible is true, but to attempt to make it a textbook for science is to misunderstand it completely and tragically. The purpose of the Bible is to bring men to Christ, to make them holy and prepare them for heaven. In this it is unique among books, and it always fulfills its purpose when it is read in faith and obedience.

A.W. Tozer

 2007/3/21 15:45

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732

 Re: Does God Need Us to Defend Him?


My questions, concerning apologists and apologetics, are...

[b]Does God need our arguments to defend Him?

Should we be scrambling to formulate worldly arguments to convict the world of spiritual issues?[/b]

Corey you've stated this delimma well. I did find it abit reactionary to describe AIG as not being truthful.

I would offer that we are talking about degrees here. We can't simply categorize our faith as a matter of the 'heart' as if what we believe is irrational, deferring to science at every feeling of 'cognitive dissonance'. Often our dissonance is simply a lack of available information or understanding...which I believe you are admitting.

Your question of "defending God' is perhaps a rheotrical statement, but there is still the question of budiling up the Christian. We simply cannot retreat to the spiritual world, giving scientists authority over the material world because the Bible deals with material reality. Moses really did split the Red Sea, Joshua really did bring down the walls of Jericho, Hezekiah really was inexplexibly saved from destruction from the Assyrian Army. Besides we are critiquing science, a method of thinking that should embrace critique or quickly becomes mere dogma and doctrine if it refuses to be challenged.

Scientists are not conspirasists, but they do curiously refuse to be questioned by theologians while simultaneously infringing in theology and cosmology with impunity.

Most professional archeologists will deny the bodily ressurection of Jesus. Do we leave this matter up to a choice of the heart and leave our cognitive recognition of this historic fact at the door...perhaps with a shrug of the shoulder we say "I don't know Lord, but you do..." Of course not!

Certainly Christians aren't to be burdened to write acedemic papers for every technical detail missing in the bible...How Noah's ark was engineered ect. Only recognize that Jesus and Paul regarded Noah not as a hero in a hymn but as a historic man.

Regarding dinosaur fossils, I'm not sure what their bones prove towards either evolution or creationism. I don't know of anyone who denies the existence of dinosaurs...they were a whole class of animals that were neither reptiles nor birds...they are deservedly classified as dinosauria, a whole order of animals that for some reason aren't around anymore....(unless you count birds.) The existance and extinction of these animals does not testify against scripture, so I'm not sure what dissonance you feel from them. A fossil, when viewed objectively at face value without any preconceptions, is really not a conclusive proof for any cosmology.

But we are living in a time where infant Darwinian orthodoxy has become the hegemony of our age. Bonhoeffer felt that in our scientific age, "man had come of age" and no longer needed God to explain the universe...and as a result the Church needed to become 'secular' in it's mission. In more recent years Carl Sagan blamed Christianity for holding back civilization 1000 years...he believed that if the Church had never been, mankind might have had the scientific knowledge to be colonizing planets in other solar systems by now. Yet I am finding that this caracaturization of faith as being 'irrational' is not completely unique to our modern age. The early church fathers also addressed evolution (not by name of course, but by it's philosophic denial of God in cosmology). The cosmopolitan Romans regarded Christians as a primitive superstitious people. So in this light, our modern secularism is perhaps just a return to greek philosophy. In any case I feel we must resist regarding faith and rationality as mutually exclusive domains incompatible with one another. The bible is not only spiritually relevant but the material record of scripture is utterly vital to everything we hold dear.

I'm not condraticing you brother. If anything I emphathize with your feelings on this matter...but I would clarify that our faith is more then a matter of the heart. The head is part of the new man as well.;-)



Mike Compton

 2007/3/22 0:38Profile

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