SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : JEWISH ERROR AND REPLACEMENT ERROR

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 JEWISH ERROR AND REPLACEMENT ERROR

I think if I hear replacement theology any more I will gag. this is getting so muddied up by people it is the new standard by which to measure each other.extreme paranoia in the[pro-jewish crowd] and unknown agendas in the replacement crowd.I wonder what the word says? Oh, but both crowds use the bible to protect their doctrines.So do jehova witnesses. seems i can make that bible say just about ANYTHING I WANT IT TO.false doctrine starts with a premise and uses scripture to support it.neither crowd passes the smell test.mike brown should know better.and the anti jewish crowd should know better. it is so easy to poke holes in either of these false doctrines.thank GOD for the washing of the word and THE HOLY SPIRIT TO INTERPRET IT.

 2007/3/6 8:37Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: JEW ERROR AND REPLACEMENT ERROR

I presume you mean by this that the Holy Spirit only washes you with the word while all the folk who happen to disagree with you remain unwashed and consequently fail to pass 'the smell test'? You don't think this attitude is a little immoderate? There is ample opportunity for reasonable and charitable discussion on these forums but this kind of attitude closes all the doors.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/3/6 9:30Profile
BradW
Member



Joined: 2006/5/30
Posts: 94
Edmonton, AB, Canada

 Re: Replacement theology

Could someone in the know here, explain a little bit about this? I know the general idea that the NT Church "replaces" the OT Israel, but I don't know where either side draws their proofs.

I'm still learning and praying about this but haven't come to a conclusion yet. I just want to open this up to both sides of the debate.

Also, if anyone knows of some trustworthy sites that explain this, that would be great.

Brad


_________________
Brad Wright

 2007/3/6 10:39Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

My thoughts: (Originally posted in the Israel thread in the News and Current Events Forum.)

Galatians 3:29, "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

If I am Abraham's offspring and the promise to Abraham was simply land, then don't I have a claim to that land?

I know the question is sort of absurd, but I feel it captures some confusion regarding the nation of Israel.

First, I wish to express my love for Israel.
May God bless the nation of Israel. They are the only true democracy in the Middle East and they are a strong ally of America.

Second, I wish to clear up an understanding of modern Israel in relation to Abraham.
God's promise was "to Abraham and his seed...He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

Paul says "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" and "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Not all Jews are God's chosen people. Many Jews throughout the ages have died apart from Christ. This raises an important question: "Hath God cast away his people? The Jews are referred to as God's people because they are the ones "to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." Paul says, "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day."

There is an elect number of the Jews that come to Jesus and the rest are hardened unto this day. This is part of God's plan. Paul says, "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy." Paul later says, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

As a nation, Israel is blinded, in part, by God. This is not a complete spiritual blindness because many Jews are coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus, but it is a spiritual blindness upon the majority of the Jews. This blindness will happen until the fullness of the Gentiles come in--the full number of elect Gentiles are saved. Then God will remove the blindness on Israel and they will see their Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.

Now, notice what is not mentioned in these veres:
1) The current nation of Israel is the receipent of the promises of Abraham.
This promise was made to Abraham and his Seed. The Seed is Christ and all who are Christians are Abraham's offspring.

2) Anyone who curses the current nation of Israel will be cursed and anyone who blesses the current nation of Israel will be blessed.
Once again, this was spoken to Abraham and his Seed. This applies to Christians, not modern Jews.

3) A third temple will be rebuilt
The temple served a purpose and was destroyed because it was no longer needed. When Christ came He did away with the need for a temple and the ceremonial law. The New Testament is clear that the church is the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 3:16-17) and the believer's body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 6:19).

Note: What about 2 Thess 2?
"1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

The temple is the church and the man of sin exalts himself in the church. This is the apostasy and rebellion in the church, not a Jewish temple.

 2007/3/6 10:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:

BradW wrote:
Could someone in the know here, explain a little bit about this? I know the general idea that the NT Church "replaces" the OT Israel, but I don't know where either side draws their proofs.

I'm still learning and praying about this but haven't come to a conclusion yet. I just want to open this up to both sides of the debate.

Also, if anyone knows of some trustworthy sites that explain this, that would be great.

Brad



Here is Dr. Michael Brown's website ministry:
http://icnministries.org/israel/forsaken.htm

 2007/3/6 11:38
Lily22
Member



Joined: 2007/2/1
Posts: 1
Michigan

 Re:

JaySaved, your interpretation is excellent!


_________________
Sandra

 2007/3/6 12:26Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

by JaySaved on 2007/3/6 15:58:15

Quote:
My thoughts: (Originally posted in the Israel thread in the News and Current Events Forum.)


I suspect that we would see pretty much eye to eye on this topic and I certainly appreciate the gentle spirit of your post.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/3/6 13:53Profile









 Re:

That was absolutely wonderful, thank you for explaining it that way.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this [b]present[/b] time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

When you consider Israels history, I am sure you have. When Nehemiah and Ezra went back to Jerusalem to begin it's restoration, I believe only 1-2% of the Jewish nation returned, the rest stayed in Babylon. When you consider that many in Babylon had foreign wives. When you consider that when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. Again, they were scattered to the four winds not by choice, and not in one group. Some were sold for wives, slaves. Over time there would be such a level of cross breeding that there would be no such a thing as a true bredded Jew, it would be name only not by blood.

And I believe that the Jewish Encyclopedia makes that fact known, that the Jew of the bible is not the same Jew of today. Though many Christians would argue with that.

 2007/3/6 15:41
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

I'm just wondering, can we find out where the popular preachers on this site break down on this issue, 'replacement theology' that is.

I'm fairly certain that the majority (Zac, Leonard, AW Tozer) would be considered in favor of 'replacement theology.' I'm just wondering if there is anyone worth noting that is against it.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/3/6 16:03Profile









 Re: JEW ERROR AND REPLACEMENT ERROR

Hi Ian,

Unless you listen to Dr Brown's exposition at the beginning of the recent thread titled 'replacement theology', you will miss that [u]he is defining 'replacement theology' differently from the majority[/u] of posters on SI.

I'm not sure if he is definining accurately, what Jews object to, or has misunderstood what many Christians believe, thus creating a false dichotomy which is only doing harm to the relationship between unsaved (and saved) Jews and the Church.

EDIT: I didn't mean this to sound like saved Jews are not in the Church. :-( Of course they are! 8-) I do apologise for the way I left that overnight and trust my meaning is now clear.

 2007/3/6 16:13





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy