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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Amazing Grace - William Wilberforce / John Newton movie. (released 02/23/07)

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 Re:

I get under y'alls skin cuz I make you think. If I make people squirm a little then I am fulfilling the calling on my life. No apologies for that.

Krispy

 2007/2/28 15:26
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Well you said read Spurgeon, I would suggest you read a biography of Spurgeon -he was often attacked for appearing to be part of the world. His ministry was to the poor and the prostitutes. He (at one point in his life) liked to go to the theater and even held his church in a theater. He drank at least once a day.

All the while he was serving God, he understood that none of what he did was sinful, but it was the legalists that were condemning him that were in sin.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/28 15:30Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

"No man ever puts a stumbling block in the way of others by telling the truth." ~ Oswald Chambers

it's all good man.

 2007/2/28 15:34Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

If I'm not wrong Oswald Chambers studied Fine Arts in college... what do you think Fine Arts entails?

Secular Paintings, Classical Music, Theater (Greek Comedies and Tragedies) Shakespeare, Literature etc.

One man's Fine Arts is another man's entertainment. There were people in his day that would have seen this all as foulness, but he found beauty.


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Ian Smith

 2007/2/28 15:41Profile









 Re:

Hey Ian... you remind me of one of my kids: "Why cant I do that? Everyone else's dad lets them do that!"

Like I said... go see the movie. I dont care. All I'm commanded to do is put the Word of God out there. I dont have to answer for what you do. Mock me all you want, cite other people's behavior as justification for your's ... [b]I dont care.[/b]

I'm commanded to preach the truth in season and out of season. What you do with it is your business.

At that point it isnt about me, or Spurgeon, or Keith Green, who whoever... it's about you, buddy.

Krispy

 2007/2/28 15:47
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Krispy...

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Forgive me for taking this as being contentious. Perhaps you, as well, have ignored what I have written on this thread. Especially part about being in a process, as we all are. And yes, for me, at this point God is convicting me of sporting events on TV, etc. Not just Amazing Grace. But thanx for pointing out my struggle with hypocricy as justification for others to do as they please.

Listen... the long and the short of it is this... I will not be losing any sleep if my brethren on this forum see Amazing Grace. All I am doing is sharing God's Word with everyone so that we can all consider what [b]He[/b] thinks about it. No one has addressed the passages I have listed here. Just opinions on why it's ok to see movies with "mild profanity" in them.



I apologize if it seemed contentious. I am not trying to raise a quarrel or controversy. Nor was I trying to point out YOUR hypocrisy in the matters of subjecting ourselves to less-than-ideal speech. I was merely sharing my own perspective on this issue by pointing out the hypocrisy in pointing out a "mote" while neglecting the "beam."

I truly appreciate your words, Brother Krispy. While they are often blunt -- they do offer some good perspective and usually raise good questions about certain issues. I also appreciate both the Scriptures and the commentary you provided in these posts. You always seem to offer a perspective that is worth considering.

There is certainly an issue about holiness in speech. Whether those verses would allow us to watch a biography about a wonderful man of God (and his struggles on behalf of completing God's will in his life) are certainly an issue worthy of serious consideration.

Personally, I am glad to have watched this film. It portrayed the character and spiritual struggles of William Wilberforce quite effectively (although somewhat muted). I believe that his example will bring good rather than evil.

I do regret the inclusion of two profanities. I imagine that Dave Wilkerson might also regret the inclusion of the same profanity in both the book and film version of [i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i]. Why was it included? Was it meant to show the events AS they actually happened (Nikki Cruz did indeed swear immediately following his conversion)? Regardless, there is a decision as to whether the inclusion of that word merits the rejection of the book itself. I still own both the book and film version of [i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i]. I have seen both greatly impact the individuals of whom I loaned them to.

At what point do we physically remove ourselves from interaction with the world? Does physical removal equate to true holiness (or a lack of worldliness)? Amish believers have taken Romans 12:1-2 to an extent in that it dictates a physical removal from "the world." It dictates their dress, their locations, their language and yes, their rules for "holy" living.

However, we are all walking through "the wilderness of this world." We probably hear profanity EVERY day. We also see immodest dress EVERY day. Yet holiness means not allowing those things to take root in our hearts.

Let me be clear -- I do NOT endorse watching movies (christian or secular), music (christian or secular), books (christian or secular), fashion (christian or secular), etc... I believe that everything we do and partake of should be done in faith. This not only means abstaining from obvious profanities -- but abstaining from profane conversations. Remember, profanity is not limited to a particular word. Yet we live in a world in which we cannot physically escape such things. Our escape, thus, is spiritual.

I believe that we can shine a light in the darkness. We can eat, drink and sit with prostitutes, tax collectors and "sinners." Does this mean that we can become like them? No. Does this mean that we can borrow their lifestyles or adapt Christianity to become convenient to them? Of course not. But it does mean that if we are going to reach the world, we will have to reach [u]INTO[/u] the world.

Quote:
I'm not God, and I answer for no one other than myself before God. But being that I care for everyone here, it is my duty to share God's Word concerning this issue of [b]paying[/b] (emphasis for [b]Roaringlamb[/b]) to hear profanity.

You raise an extremely important issue. Should a believer watch this biography? Should they refrain out of holy obligation? Like you, I will not lose sleep on the issue if people watch it or refrain from it. I will neither recommend the film nor dismiss it. I personally found it strongly educational and encouraging. But like Greg stated, I would much rather spend time in secret and quiet communion with God. Remarkably, this is the same message of the film. William Wilberforce preferred to spend his time in prayer and "the Lord's work" -- yet discovered that the Lord's work can sometimes include fighting spiritual and social immorality.

I love you, Brother Krispy. Keep sharing -- and may the Lord encourage you tremendously!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/2/28 15:55Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Quote:
I get under y'alls skin cuz I make you think. If I make people squirm a little then I am fulfilling the calling on my life. No apologies for that.



Is that really your calling for life... I really didn't want to bring much attention to this because it really doesn't make you sound very edifying.

It's true, if you're a profit in the Old Testament than your calling is to rock-the-boat... but this is not the OT, we're not under the law but under Grace. There aren't that many people here who need to have their boats rocked. I know and have been confirmed in the Spirit that I am living my life unto Jesus and taking up my cross daily -do I need you crawling under my skin?

Let's just be honest here, there's a certain air of pride in your posts about how separated you are from the world. I know you're excited about what you've done, but a truly humble person wouldn't force anyone else to be humble but to lead by example.

Krispy, if you were the Pastor and this was a church and we were all backsliders and unconverted heathen then your words and rebukes would be proper. However, for the most part, the believers who interact on this forum are members of the New Covenant -instead of condemnation your posts should be encouragement. I strongly recommend you listen to Zac Poonen's messages on Grace and the New Covenenant.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/28 16:00Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Quote:
Mock me all you want, cite other people's behavior as justification for your's ... [i]I dont care.[/i] -Krispy



You see the problem I have with this, is that you bolded it, I changed it to italics... and I was actually really hurt when I read it, because you know how I read it.

[i]I care all about me, don't talk about anything to me about yourself or anyone else, I really don't care about you at all.[/i]

I'm not twisting your words, I'm just telling you how I read them, and I want you to know that I was really hurt when I read them -and I hope you don't mean them in that way.

Quote:
I'm commanded to preach the truth in season and out of season. What you do with it is your business.



I really think that this was the heart of Jesus when he was preaching the beattitudes, 'I'm supposed to preach the truth... what you do with it is your business.'


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/28 16:07Profile









 Re:

[b]ccchhhrrriiisss[/b]...

... you and I go back a ways, so I know you know I love and respect you as my brother in Christ.

There is much you said that I agree with 100%. Most here know that. I think the thing I'm addressing is a flippancy toward the things of the world. An almost "aw... c'mon, it's not so bad" attitude, and it's cropping up on this site quite a bit lately. Perhaps it's because I think there has been an influx of younger people coming on board. I think that's [b]great[/b]. I think it's a wonderful opportunity for the rest of us to teach these guys that this world has nothing to offer us of any redeeming value.

Of course we are to reach the world. Most people here have no idea the ministries I am involved in. Staying at arms length from the world is not my calling in the least.

I think what I'm trying to do on this thread it tip the scales the other way and say "Hey... God does have something to say about what we feed our minds on!" And hopefully it's made some people think a little.

Love ya too, brother... I think you're the man.

Krispy

 2007/2/28 16:10









 Re:

Ian... of course I didnt mean it that way, and I apologize for not choosing my words more wisely. I appreciate you being here, and we've had some private conversations that have let me know you're for real, and you and I serve the same God.

All I was saying is I am not telling people what to do. Of course I'm concerned with your soul, and your walk with God... but I'm not the Holy Spirit. You have to answer for you.

If I didnt love you and have concern, I wouldnt say the things I say about what God's Word has to say on such subjects as this.

Forgive me, brother, for hurting you.

Krispy

 2007/2/28 16:14





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