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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : John chapter 8

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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

In Genesis 3:15 we hear...

15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”


Again, above is the covenant that God spoke to Satan...

And now listen to the words of Jesus...

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

What is the genesis that brings seperation between the seed of Satan and the Seed of the woman? Look carefully to what Jesus identifies as source from which men become the children of Satan or the children of God...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/1 2:31Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

John 8

43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Paul writes of the same precept in Romans 10:

Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The scribes and Pharisee that stood before Jesus were indeed zealous...just as Paul describes...

2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Jesus identifies what is lacking in the decendants of Abraham that stand before Him. They have chosen not to submit to the word of God. They have had the Scriptures all their lives yet lack knowledge. Instead they have chosen to listen to another that speaks....

John 8

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

When sin entered the world it came through the words of Satan. Those who choose to hear his words become like him.

Those who choose to hear what Scripture says to their heart, these become the children of Abraham and thus grow in the likeness of the Seed.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/2 2:20Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Verse 9. And think not to say, etc. They regarded it, as sufficient righteousness that they were descended from so holy a man as Abraham. They deemed it as such an honour that it would go far to justify all his descendants, Joh 8:33-37,53. John assured them that this was a matter of small consequence in the sight of God. Of the very stones of the Jordan he could raise up children to Abraham. The meaning seems to be this: God, from these stones, could more easily raise up those who should be worthy children of Abraham, or be like him, than simply because you are descendants of Abraham make you, who are proud and hypocritical, subjects of the Messiah's kingdom. Or, mere nativity, or the privileges of birth, avail nothing where there is not righteousness of life.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

It is Christ that saves not Abraham.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/3/3 4:10Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
It is Christ that saves not Abraham.



Absolutely...that is why you will find both of these statements contained within John 8..

12 "Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world, he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

58 "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

You see Scripture teaches us that Abraham's Seed is the promise. Abraham is given to us as an example of where faith leads those who hear and do what God speaks to them...He is the light of the world and for those who follow Him, they will not walk in darkness.

Brother Phillip do you see what the words of Jesus say here in John chapter 8?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/3 9:25Profile
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 Re:

We have gone back and forth about Abraham's Faith and the Faith of Jesus Christ. Abraham's Faith believed God that He would be the father of many nations. That is because of the Promise of God that the Gentiles would be saved by Faith in Jesus Christ the Seed. Abraham's faith is not the same faith that we have been given by Jesus Christ unto salvation of the Body of Christ. Because Abraham believed God it was accounted to him as righteousness, not because his faith was that of Jesus Christ, because that faith had not come. Our Faith by Jesus Christ makes us the same as Abraham's faith to believe God for the Promise, which was the Seed, and us to believe Jesus Christ and His Faith that would save the Gentiles, when it came, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Galatians 3:20-27 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (((But before faith came,))) we were kept under the law, (((shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.))) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (((But after that faith is come,))) we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

So it was not Abraham's faith that would bring us to Christ, but like not being the same but the faith of Jesus Christ that would justify the Christian, making us righteous in Christ Jesus, not by Abraham's faith but by the Faith of Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:22-26 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Lets not make Abraham more that God made him. Lets make Christ much more and the only Faith by which we are saved unto justification and righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:28-31 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

It is God's works in us by the Faith that is come, that being the Faith of Jesus Christ unto salvation by Grace through Christ's Faith.


In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/3/5 3:52Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Our Faith by Jesus Christ makes us the same as Abraham's faith to believe God for the Promise, which was the Seed, and us to believe Jesus Christ and His Faith that would save the Gentiles, when it came, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.



Do you believe that when God spoke to Abraham, that the words He spoke, came from Christ then?

For we know that before Abraham was, Christ was the "I AM."



In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/6 20:55Profile
rookie
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 Re:

So far we see that there are those whose father is Satan, and those whose Father is God. We see that the "words" we listen to determine who our father or Father is. Now look to the beginning of Chapter 8...


5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not].

Here we learn of a distinction brought about by those who lived according to the letter...


Listen to Paul's teaching...

2 Corinthians 3:

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.


Paul refers to the Law of Moses as the ministry of death, and the ministry of condemnation.

Now look again to how the scribes and pharisees seek to condemn Jesus by the Law of Moses...

Do you see the outworking of the covenant made on Mount Sinai in those who sought only to fulfill the letter of the law?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/11 17:32Profile
rookie
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 Re:

The ministry of condemnation has always had the same results...

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Now look to John 8

6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

Again...

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Do you see what Jesus is teaching at this moment?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/13 0:36Profile
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 Re:

Jeff wrote,

Quote: Do you believe that when God spoke to Abraham, that the words He spoke, came from Christ then?

No.

Romans 3:27-31 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

They by works of Faith, Those in Christ the new gospel of Paul revealed, through faith that is in Jesus Christ not Abraham.

Romans 16:25-27 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/3/13 2:09Profile
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 Re:

Jeff wrote,

Quote: "For we know that before Abraham was, Christ was the "I AM

Of Course Jesus had not been born of a woman and gone to the Cross and ascended to the Father and returned in the Spirit of the Born Again, and through His faith receive regeneration unto salvation and forgiveness of sin.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Abraham's wisdom was not of Christ, not righteous because of the Christ in him, not sanctified by Jesus Christ or redeemed in Christ Jesus YET. All of Israel except those that were in hell, were put in the bosom of Abraham, where Christ went and preached to those in prison. Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

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