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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : "Prosperity Movement"

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hijode1dios
Member



Joined: 2004/3/15
Posts: 27
Waco, GA

 Re: Prosperity?

I clearly remember watching an unnamed TV evangelist years ago take up an offering. The ushers took many huge garbage can containers up across the front of the sanctuary (instead of offering plates.) The "audience" was then asked (as the ushers stood waiting by the garbage cans)if anyone had a curse of God on their finances because they had not been using their money for God, and if so, they were to come on up and lay their hands on the garbage cans and get prayed for to receive deliverance before the offering was received.

Of course no one came forward. It was put in such a way that if you could not give, you were living under the judgement and wrath of God...the prosperity doctrine.

Then the offering was "taken." The garbage cans were overflowing with money. What a sad way for the shepherd to treat the sheep of God. I believe he was not a shepherd...but only a hireling.

Personally, I would rather my tithes be given to a shepherd who takes care of me...instead of some distant TV evangelist who doesn't know me.

A dear elderly friend of mine passed on to Glory in December. But, she received some of these photocopied "prophecies" from some TV evangelist who made probably thousands of copies of a few handwritten pages. He prophesied her healing in 2003. She died.

Of course, she is no longer a blind, diabetic, nor lonely widow. That was God's gift of healing for her. But, the TV evangelist seemed to be making alot of money from dear old ladies who trusted them.

I am predisposed against all such teachings and the prosperity doctrine. I don't expect to walk in finery when Christ wore a crown of thorns.


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Vicky Hunt

 2004/3/27 2:52Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Yep.
Just another example of manipulation.

A thought I have been chewing on in regards to all of this here;

The reason I said that this is one case where we could 'throw the baby out with the bath water' is because it starts off on the wrong premise and deteriorates from there.

Certainly there are true riches, true blessings and true 'prosperity', I just don't think you can extract it out of this mess. Better to start from scratch me thinks....

2 more cent's on the pile.


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Mike Balog

 2004/3/27 11:14Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Prosperity

My pleasure Todd, I find prosperity is a much discussed topic amongst many Christians in my circle.

I have many friends who are Creflo Dollar fans. My only problem with Dr. Dollar is that he doesn't expound on the reason why God choses (some) to financial prosperity, mainly our becoming His tool toward the financial blessing of others, and that he has a tendency to promote piety as an attainment of financial promise. 1 Timothy comes down pretty hard on "piety for profit".

I've pointed out to a few of my friends that in Dr. Dollar's latest series on "Holiness" he seems to be going left field on his following, now telling them that if they're pursuing holiness to God for profit, that it's a vain and sin laden offering. One can tell that they're now very confused because the hoops and cheers to his usual message have been traded in for a baffled gaze in silence. Dr. Dollar in this series uses the word "you" exclusively toward his disciples in the commiting of this error, when I think he should be falling down on his knees in repentance crying "we" (including himself, as he is the ring leader).

I think the time is nigh that a great shaking is coming to the body of Christ, and that Christ is about to fight against all "doctrine" that is not of Him with the sword protruding from His mouth. Somehow like David, we've forgotten that God has His own rules of religion, and that as Christians we're supposed to be bearers of His cross as the Levite were of the ark, but now we've got our own new formulas of convienent doctrine borne by our own heathen inspired carts. Yea, I think Jesus is about to throw a bump into our road, and a multitude of Uzzah's will pay the ultimate price ... Amen

 2004/3/29 12:56Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Todd:

I do find Derek Prince's article in your other thread, [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1612&forum=42&0]Blessed or Cursed[/url] much more palatable than Kenneth Copeland's book, [url=http://www.kcm.org/studycenter/finances/pdf/lawsofprosperity.pdf]The Law of Prosperity[/url].

Derek Prince thinks "abundance" is God's blessing and "poverty" is God's curse. However, it is important to note that he redefines [i]poverty[/i] in relation to [b]God's will[/b] such that "poverty is [i]having less than all you need to do God's will in your life[/i]." From this point of view, his understanding of prosperity is not as extreme as Copeland's.

In contrast, what Kenneth Copeland seems to be saying, is that God has a specific "spiritual law", "system of finances", or "covenant" governing money matters. This is really saying that there is a [b]formula[/b] for getting rich because there are causal relationships that even God must follow. Hence, if you "sow one dollar of seed money on God", you are guaranteed a hundred-fold return. He failed to mention at any point that God is [i]sovereign[/i]. He gives according to his sovereign will and he takes away according to his sovereign will. No one is guaranteed financial success and prosperity. Rather, we are to look to God for his [i]daily[/i] supply.

Agent001


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Sam

 2004/3/31 13:22Profile
hijode1dios
Member



Joined: 2004/3/15
Posts: 27
Waco, GA

 Re: Blessings and curses

Quote:

Agent001 wrote:

Derek Prince thinks "abundance" is God's blessing and "poverty" is God's curse. However, it is important to note that he redefines [i]poverty[/i] in relation to [b]God's will[/b] such that "poverty is [i]having less than all you need to do God's will in your life[/i]." From this point of view, his understanding of prosperity is not as extreme as Copeland's.

Agent001



That does seem to be the crux of the whole prosperity movement...the idea that "abundance" is God's blessing and "poverty" is God's curse.

But, often poverty has been a blessing for God's people and prosperity a curse. Each man has their own individual gift. Some are given to prosperity and some poverty; some to marriage and some to singleness; some to working in the secular world and some to preaching the gospel. What is difficult for the carnal mind to accept is that God has a plan for each of us as mentioned in Jeremiah 29:11, and it may not be the same plan He has for our brother and sister sitting on the pew beside us.


_________________
Vicky Hunt

 2004/4/7 1:18Profile





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