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 Re:

Quote:
Ironman said:....Wasn't what was said here in reference to what Ezekiel was talking about the sacking of Jerusalem? that people thought it wouldn't happen?


I would agree with you, however this verse bothers me
Quote:
Ezekiel 12:28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall [b]none of my words be prolonged any more[/b], but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.


Our LORD God says that His words would not be prolonged ANY MORE. If He was just referring to the sacking of Jerusalem wouldn't He had mentioned that?
Quote:
Ezekiel 12:25 For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD.

For in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the Word and will perform it. "For in your days", is as long as Israel remained a nation, wouldn't you agree? :-?

 2007/5/10 18:20









 Re: Israel

Compliments, I'm with you on this one.

There is no Jew nor Gentile, Black nor White, Male nor Female, Slave nor Free - but all are one in Christ Jesus.

The "Light Unto the Gentiles" is come. He saves anyone who believes, Jew or Gentile. Once saved, we are Citizens of [i]The Heavenly Jerusalem[/i] and we no longer require built tabernacles to worship in because [i]We Are The Tabernacle[/i].

This doctrine that before Jesus' [i]Third Coming[/i] - after "coming in the clouds" to 'rapture' the believers - a new physcial temple must be built, sacrifices must be reinstated, and the Jews must become the masters of the human race [i]must[/i]... or he positively won't come... is ludicrous. Not to mention CARNAL.

If we are the Temple, what does that say about "the abomination of desolation"?

Jesus [i]was[/i] the sacrifice. We [i]are[/i] the temple.

Israel's not better nor worse than Iran. An unsaved Jew isn't more holy than an unsaved Arab.

 2007/5/12 14:58









 Re: Israel

Compliments said

Quote:
"For in your days", is as long as Israel remained a nation, wouldn't you agree?

Do you have a working definition of 'nation' as God may have intended us to understand it?

 2007/5/13 14:11









 Re: Israel


I came across a few verses in Hebrews 3, which I've never 'seen' before, in the context of my earlier post about believers being the temple of God.

I don't have much more to say, seeing there are other threads ongoing which continually hit the rock of 'who is Israel now?', but I want to share this fresh thought.

As an introduction, these words of Jesus (below) struck me as relevant; perhaps especially because I've begun to ask myself 'what is the [i]one[/i] hope, referred to by Paul in Ephesians 4, and here again (Heb 3), as 'the hope'?


First, John 14
1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
2 "In My Father's house are many mansions; if [i]it were[/i] not [i]so,[/i] I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, [i]there[/i] you may be also.
4 "And where I go you know, and the way you know."
5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 " If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?


This is what I read in Hebrews 3:
1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,
2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also [i]was faithful[/i] in all His house.
3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house.
4 For every house is built by someone, [color=006699]but He who built all things [i]is[/i] God[/color].
5 And Moses indeed [i]was[/i] faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken [i]afterward,[/i]
6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, [color=006699]whose house we are [/color][color=0000CC][b]if[/b][/color] [color=006699]we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end[/color].

 2007/6/9 13:32









 Re:

Dorcas, just finding this thread. May I ask ~ are these threads Hizzoner's ?

dito ~ SHALOM!

 2007/6/12 14:09
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
I don't have much more to say, seeing there are other threads ongoing which continually hit the rock of 'who is Israel now?',



Rather shouldn't the question be who will Israel be?

The only One who knows is the One who will in the future bring back those whom He dispersed throughout the nations of the world. Those whom He chooses will be those who fulfill the promise God made to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

The Holy One of Jacob will reign for a 1000 years in Zion.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/12 21:39Profile









 Re: Israel

GrannieAnnie asked

Quote:
are these threads Hizzoner's ?

Indeed.

 2007/6/13 9:38









 Re: Israel


rookie asked

Quote:
shouldn't the question be who will Israel be?

Hmmm.

This is how I see it. I am, of course, open to 'see' more.

Israel both is, and will be.

I am amazed at how much is made of what will become of Jews who are now or are yet to be born, as if there has not been a steady stream of Jews coming into Christ right down the centuries. I don't say this in opposition to Paul's statement about a time when there will be a veritable flood of Jews, but I'm not certain this is going to be as striking as many seem to believe.

Because, Jesus said there would be few who would find the narrow way and this seems to be true in every generation, also. And, I think we have to accept He was most certainly speaking to the lost sheep of the house of Israel when He said that.

Also, as down through the generations, gentiles join themselves to the Jewish faith, thus qualifying to call themselves Jews in addition to those who are able to make claim to ethnic Jewishness, the numbers - as the sand on the seashore and the stars in the firmament - are increasing also. 1% of such a large number will be a lot of 'Jews'.

Lastly Jeff, have you ever noticed how God defined what He had done when He brought them out of Egypt (before the Law), though they were circumcised. Hmmm. That's a thought I hadn't had before - that it was easy for the Hebrews to consider themselves 'God's people' because of circumcision. All their guidance until the Law had come through God speaking to individual men. What those men (the patriarchs) had [i]said[/i], came with the power of affecting the lives of those who followed them. This is why Joseph was so keen to influence the blessing his sons were to receive from Jacob - it would be literally life-changing for each of them.

Put in the context of Paul's ' by the law [i]is[/i] the knowledge of sin, it seems remarkable that God had been willing to call them His people despite where they had ended up - in Egypt (symbolic of sin), and did not give them 'law' until after He had brought them out of there.... (Just thinking.... )

Going back to where I was a minute ago, here is God's view of the exodus:

Exodus 19
3 And Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel:
4 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and [i]how[/i] I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to [b]Myself[/b].

Later, He said through Moses:
Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

In the KJV, this is the seventh time He has called them stiffnecked, lastly mentioned by Stephen (Acts 7:51) followed by 'ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [i]did[/i], so [i]do[/i] ye.'

God goes on in Exodus 19
5 'Now therefore, [u]if[/u] you will indeed obey [u]My voice[/u] and [u]keep My covenant[/u], then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth [i]is[/i] Mine.
6 'And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'


I think I should start a new post, now I've found more to say than was originally in my mind.

 2007/6/13 10:07









 Re: Israel

Hebrews 9
7 But into the second part the high priest [i]went[/i] alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and [i]for[/i] the people's sins [i]committed[/i] in ignorance;
8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.

9 It [i]was[/i] symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience --
10 [i]concerned[/i] only with foods and drinks, various washings, and [u]fleshly ordinances [b]imposed until the time of reformation[/b][/u].

11 But Christ came [i]as[/i] High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, [u]cleanse your conscience[/u] from dead works [u]to serve the living God[/u]?

15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, [u]that those who are called may receive [b]the promise of the eternal inheritance[/b][/u].


So, in view of what God said to the people at Sinai (the people who didn't want to hear Him speak to them directly, but wanted Moses to relay His word), that He had brought them (into the wilderness where there were no fleshly pleasures to enjoy) to [i]Himself[/i], is it too much of a leap to interpret 'the promise of the eternal inheritance' as [i]Himself[/i] primarily.

 2007/6/13 10:40









 Re: Israel

Sorry Jeff! This is getting longer and longer... :-( ... but I would add one more thought from God's qualifying clause at the end of Exodus 19:5 'for all the earth is Mine.'

This is completely in keeping with Paul's re-iteration of the promise to Abraham in Romans 4:12, 13 'but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham [i]had while still[/i] uncircumcised. [u]For the promise that he would be the heir of [b]the world[/b][/u] [i]was[/i] not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but [b]through the righteousness of faith[/b].'

In this, we are back to God's people being those who hear from Him personally and directly, not filtered through a human priesthood or theological school of doctrine apart from scripture. In another thread, 'and... they testify of Me' has been quoted.

I believe this can be understood in other statements which Paul makes about Jesus.

2 Cor 5:19
God was in Christ reconciling [u]the world to [b]Himself[/b][/u], not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and [u]in Him all things consist[/u].
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased [i]the Father that[/i]] in Him all the fullness should dwell,
20 and [b]by Him to reconcile all things to [u]Himself[/u], by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven[/b], having made peace through the blood of His cross.


I really do wonder if the 'land' He promised, which Abraham walked into peacefully but never owned (as LittleGift pointed out) more than a burial plot, was, like the Holy Spirit to us here, an earnest of the full inheritance to come, namely - Himself.

There is a sense in which we, also, like Abraham, can never aspire to own more than 'a burial plot' in Christ, that we may be counted amongst those worthy of resurrection from the dead. Is not this the one and only hope of salvation (Eph 4:4)?

Genesis 15:1
After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: [b]I[/b] [i]am[/i] thy shield, [i]and[/i] [b]thy exceeding great reward[/b].

 2007/6/13 10:56





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