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warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Whats the difference?

I have a question. I guess i should be ashamed about this but i must ask this. What is the difference between " the means justifying the end" and " the end justifying the means." is this some thing that would cost us salvation? Is it not biblical to have either view? Please let me know the difference then explain if this has anything to do with salvation.

 2007/2/13 13:19Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: Whats the difference?

Hi brother,

Have you heard this message:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282&commentView=itemComments]Ten shekels and a shirt[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=2067]Transcription[/url]

In one way deals with your question.

 2007/2/13 13:29Profile
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

I have listened to the message but it doesn't make things clear for me. Sorry. The message is good but it doesn't reach my understanding.

 2007/2/13 13:35Profile
JennRich
Member



Joined: 2006/7/17
Posts: 140
Alabama

 Re: Whats the difference?

"The end justifying the means" is the theory that a person may do whatever it takes to reach a certain goal, no matter if the methods used to reach it are right or wrong. The goal in itself may be good, but the person thinks that wrong methods used to attain it are considered "right" because his motive is good.

An example would be when a preacher (knowingly) uses a certain Scripture out of context. His goal might be good, but that doesn't authorize him to misuse God's Word for his own purposes.


_________________
Jennifer Richardson

 2007/2/13 14:18Profile
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

Thats good, I like that! (not the theory but the explaination)now please explain to me "the means justifying the end" And use a good example like you did before. I'm almost home free. I have got 1/3 of the puzzle figured out. Help me out guys. Don't forget that after you guys are done explaining to me the M.J.T.E then explain that if you do either, would it effect salvation?

 2007/2/13 14:29Profile
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

Don't leave me hanging people. Someone out there can help me. This is not sarcasm i'm using. I know its hard to tell tones on the internet but this has been a wonder of mine for a while.

 2007/2/14 0:53Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Whats the difference?

I personally believe that both statements are flawed. Ends and means are equally important. In the dark ages the church held a veiw that the "ends" were more important, and terrible atrocities were commited in the "name of God"[[i]sic[/i].

In the past century, Liberals have emphasised the "means" and the result has been a social gospel, that is void of saving power.

This is why Reidhead said, "The chief end of all being is the glory of God." My suggestion, throw out the question, for it is meaningless. Christ is the "means" and the "end".

Listen again to "Ten Shekels..." and keep your ear out for what he say is the question that needs to be settled in the heart of God's servant before he/she can be useful to Him. Herein is the answer to your concern.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2007/2/14 5:45Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Ok, I think I hav the other part for you possibly.

[b]The means justifying the end.[/b]

Suppose you have a goal, you do certain things to achieve your goal. In this case it is the things you do along the way that are important.

In other words, it is what you do that makes your cause just, not the cause itself.

Whereas in "the end justifying the means"

It is the cause that justifies your actions.

Sorry I don't have an example of it.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/14 14:36Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Whats the difference?

Christ was the means (sacrifice) for the ends (our salvation).

He provided the ends by being the means.

Praise be to God!


TJ


_________________
TJ

 2007/2/14 15:45Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re: Whats the difference?

At first sight your question seems very simple, but it has behind it a lot of important issues. The "means justifying the end" is probably the more commonly experienced phrase and means that for the purposes of achieving a desired outcome (or end), the means, even if wrong or inappropriate, maybe overlooked or excused if the outcome can be seen to be justified. This thinking is used to justify most "activist" activity, and many acts by Nation States, because of the greater good for the population. EG if someone is a spy, they won't be very successful if someone asks them what they do and they admit they are a spy. So they lie, and say they are something else.

I think the phrase "the means justifying the end" is much less common because it is much closer to what we think of as decent morality. IE do what is right, and even if the outcome is not good, it has to be accepted as it is better to behave right, than achieve an aim. This is very much the core of God's message in the bible. Do right, not achieve right. Take this verse as an example: [color=009900]2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.[/color] The outcome (or end) of living godly will be persecution. Not a pleasent outcome, but God still expects us to live godly. The reason it is right, is that in the end God will stand besides those that live the way he wants. Our Lord is the classic example. He lived a godly life, and was still crucified (not a good outcome, but justified by the means of His sinless life), but God raised Him from the dead and He is now seated at His Father's right hand. I hope this gives the connection to the salvation message.

It's late here so my thinking isn't as clear as it ought to be. Hope this helps.

Really, really good question!

Mike

 2007/2/14 18:25Profile





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