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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob really the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

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 Was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob really the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Greetings (again),

Since my knowledge is limited, most things that I see or read are new to me and I have no experience to back them up. Maybe this is obvious to people and I am just slow, but a Korean pastor explained to my fiancee and I how Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, relating to the OT and NT.

And that we are too experience the same blessings as them; 12 / 70 / 600,000 children and many more things. My fiancee translated, so the words may not be exactly correct, but what I was hearing 'clicked' in, and it began to look easier to understand that way.

Anyway, anything that anyone knows would be helpful and appreciated.

God Bless the Word,
BrianMira

 2007/2/13 11:42









 Re: Was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob really the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Quote:

BrianMira wrote:
Greetings (again),

Since my knowledge is limited, most things that I see or read are new to me and I have no experience to back them up. Maybe this is obvious to people and I am just slow, but a Korean pastor explained to my fiancee and I how Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, relating to the OT and NT.

And that we are too experience the same blessings as them; 12 / 70 / 600,000 children and many more things. My fiancee translated, so the words may not be exactly correct, but what I was hearing 'clicked' in, and it began to look easier to understand that way.

Anyway, anything that anyone knows would be helpful and appreciated.

God Bless the Word,
BrianMira



[b]Hi Brian

Is your fiancee Korean? It sounded like it. How good is her English?

It could be a misundertanding, or the pastor could be partly mistaken in this.

Abraham and Isaac have been [i]compared[/i] to Father and Son in the Trinity, but Jacob...????

Nowhere do we read in the Bible that Abraham and Isaac (still less Jacob!) ARE the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but certain incidents in the lives and position of Abraham and Isaac can be used as "pictures" of Father and Son. This kind of "picture" or example is called a "type".

For example, Abraham's offering of Isaac - his "only son", (Genesis 22) and Isaac's obedience - there ws no mention that he resisted at all).

Can't remember the name of the book on Abraham, Isaac and Jacob by Watchman Nee, (anyone?) but this may be where that pastor got the idea. Nee however compares Jacob with the Church, not with the Holy Spirit.

Hope this makes things clearer.

Blessings to you and your fiancee, and your future together.

Jeannette
[/b]

 2007/2/13 12:10









 Re:

Too many times people tend to want to read into the scripture, and over spiritualize it.

Instead, I believe scripture is pretty straight forward and simple. Sure, there are deeper things to be discovered, and the Holy Spirit will reveal things to us. But we shouldnt over spiritualize it and make the Bible some sort of mystical book. Thats where the Gnostics got off track.

I believe what the Bible says... Abraham begat Isaac, and Isaac begat Joseph. Nothing more, nothing less. I dont even believe they are a metaphor of the Trinity. I believe they are three generations of men who had great faith, and who God used to begin the nation of Israel. Period.

If they are a metaphor for the Trinity it certainly isnt something that I have ever heard of before, and it makes no difference to my walk with the Lord.

But I think it's great that you and your fiance are discussing the Word together, and obviously beginning to seek God together. Thats a good foundation on which to build your relationship. Well done!

Krispy

Krispy

 2007/2/13 12:20
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: Was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob really the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Brian,

I attend a largely Korean congregation in the USA, and have been to Korea in the past. For as much zeal as there is in the Korean church, there is also plenty of heretical teaching and wrong doctrine.

There's also the problem that you have a culture with about 2000 years of confucianism, ingrained in politics, teaching and home life -clinging to the Korean church.

Many Korean pastors will actually defend confucious as a good teacher... even though in their hearts they put some of his teachings above the teachings of Jesus -or worse: assume they're the same thing.

Being in Korea I'm sure you've already gotten a sense of this. I hope that your own personaly ministry in Korea can be one of standing in the gap.

Koreans love hierarchy, koreans love 'secret knowledge' or 'secret teachings,' koreans were preaching a prosperity gospel before the United States was... since Korea is such a small place with so many people, you can see a lot of the Western church's problems amplified in Korea.

Plus there's the language barrier, there's so much good teaching material in English -but a lot of it never gets translated to Korean, or get's translated incorrectly, or worse: translated to cater to someone's teachings.

Korea can be a scary place spiritually.

I also want to say that for all of the corruption in the Korean church, there are also people who are genuinely sold out for Jesus. Some of the most sincere believers I've ever met have been Koreans.

What I would say is that the Korean church is no worse than the US church, except that their environment and culture has accelerated a negative process that is already taking shape here in America... but there is still a remnant.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/13 13:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:


[b]Hi Brian

Is your fiancee Korean? It sounded like it. How good is her English?

It could be a misundertanding, or the pastor could be partly mistaken in this.

Abraham and Isaac have been [i]compared[/i] to Father and Son in the Trinity, but Jacob...????
Jeannette
[/b]



Jeannette,

Thank you for your advice. My fiancee is Korean and there is a possibility that she misunderstood, however, this pastor took the whole sermon to explain this, along with a chalk board to write down his point.

I am not sure if he was saying that they were the trinity, rather a medaphor connecting the two. I am going again today, so I will get a better understanding of his teaching.

God Bless You,
BrianMira

 2007/2/13 19:03









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Too many times people tend to want to read into the scripture, and over spiritualize it.

Instead, I believe scripture is pretty straight forward and simple. Sure, there are deeper things to be discovered, and the Holy Spirit will reveal things to us.


If they are a metaphor for the Trinity it certainly isnt something that I have ever heard of before, and it makes no difference to my walk with the Lord.

But I think it's great that you and your fiance are discussing the Word together, and obviously beginning to seek God together. Thats a good foundation on which to build your relationship. Well done!

Krispy

Krispy



Hey Krispy,

Thank you for your thoughts. As I mentioned, like you said, maybe it was a metaphor for the trinity. And this was something I never thought of before, but it does make SOME sense, to say the least. You said that you never thought of it before either. He also suggested that Abraham's test from God, to sacrifice (burnt offering) Isaac was like God sacrificing His own son Jesus.

I agree that it probably does not matter much and will not make a difference to my walk with the Lord, but it is something interesting to know more about. I have seen much less important points discussed on this site.

As for my fiancee and I building a good foundation on which to build our relationship, we, from the very first date, stated that God will never be less than first in our life. From the very first day, we prayed together on the phone, and every day since. This is a far cry of ALL my other relationships. I thank God for His precious gift everyday.

Anyway, I will go listen to this preacher two more times today, so I will post later to update anything else he may say. I am not fully 'buying' anything, which is why I posted.

God Bless Truth,
BrianMira



 2007/2/13 19:18









 Re:

Quote:

iansmith wrote:
Brian,


Being in Korea I'm sure you've already gotten a sense of this. I hope that your own personaly ministry in Korea can be one of standing in the gap.

Korea can be a scary place spiritually.

Some of the most sincere believers I've ever met have been Koreans.

What I would say is that the Korean church is no worse than the US church, except that their environment and culture has accelerated a negative process that is already taking shape here in America... but there is still a remnant.



ian, I agree. These have been some challenging times for me. Although, no matter what I hear or see, I increasingly go to prayer and the Word for guidance.

May God Keep me on the narrow path of righteousness. My prayer is to be like no one, but like the ONE, Jesus. I am trying to get as much information, either from them or here as possible, but at the same time, listen to the Holy Spirit.

God Bless the Quiet but Strong Voice,
BrianMira

 2007/2/13 19:24









 Re:

just an idea...

IF this were a medaphor...would not the flood be the baptisim?

just a thought.. :-(

 2007/2/13 19:40









 Re:

How is this question important? In our walk with Christ? For our edification?

 2007/2/13 20:04









 Re:

Notme...

For 'me', it is 'not'.

Thank you.

God Bless,
BrianMira

 2007/2/14 1:25





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