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UniqueWebRev
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Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: PHILOLOGOS

My question would lean more to whether, since Jesus lives in me, does not His Faith, as in Godlike Faith, also live in me?

And if so, will not His Faith trump my poor faith as I lay gasping on the narrow path?

Also, from what I have been taught, if you turn the noun 'faith' into a verb 'faithe', it translates more clearly, but darned if I can figure out all the ways you would need to spell it to get the action sense of the word into 'faithe'.

Pulling on your sleeve, Philologos, and saying, please, please, can you explain this to me?, I give my thanks in advance for your attention to this small Greek matter, but great matter of 'faithing'.

Blessings,

Forrest


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/16 1:01Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Yes, I think it is but the 'faith' of Christ is not Christ's own faith imparted but the kind of 'faith' which Chirst had is repeated in me



That is all well and good, but is it possible that the either/or logic could include the impartation of Christ's faith? Especially in light of Eph 2:8 -

Quote:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [b]not of yourselves: [i]it is[/i] the gift of God[/b]:


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/16 4:47Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Quote:
faith is right response to revelation

Ron's definition is very simplle but very accurate. The recieving of God's revelation is in the hearing, Isa 50:4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.
Isa 50:5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
At that point it's not a work as much as it's a yeilding to in obedience that revelation since with the revelation always comes a quickening, I call that grace, or the power of God to do His Word.

The question you should have probably asked but didn't, is this: Does simple obedience to God's Written Word without any revelation constitute works?


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D.Miller

 2007/4/16 7:24Profile
beenblake
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Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
"faith is right response to revelation"; “...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Rom 10:17 NKJV)

and, being as you asked so nicely here's a free definition of 'sin' "sin is wrong response to revelation"; “...to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.” (James 4:17 NKJV)




Based upon Romans 10:17, would not the correct definition be "Sin is the right response to the Word of God."?

Revelation is the revealing of the Word of God. This means the Word is revealed in us and that we have received it inwardly. A person cannot have revelation until after they have made the correct response. The Word of God does not enter into us until we have correctly responded to the Word.

This would also give us a better definition of sin as well:

Sin is the wrong response to the Word of God.

The Father said, "This is my son, listen to Him." Jesus said, "Believe in me." This is the Word of God. How will we respond? Will we believe in Jesus or not? To sin means that we do not believe in Jesus. It means we disobey. In addition, it means that we don't put God first.

What do you think?

In love,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2007/4/16 9:04Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

We must remember that faith is not a work and it is not a meritorious action that causes God to look upon us with favor. If it was, it was contradict the very meaning of election. (Romans 9:11-12)

Here is where the confusion lies between Calvinism and the Wesleyan non-Calvinist.
Does Regeneration precede Faith or does Faith precede Regeneration.

Both systems affirm that we are saved by Grace through Faith and that our salvation does not depend on anything we do whether good or bad—we cannot earn our salvation.

Both systems affirm that the grace of God must come before our Faith:
Prevenient Grace says that God must perform a work of grace before a person has the ability to have faith. God does nothing in this grace but bring the person to the ability to choose. This grace is irresistible, but does not result in regeneration but it is not intended to.
Irresistible Grace says that God must perform a work of grace before a person has the ability to have faith. God in this grace actually regenerates the sinner and the sinner will respond with Faith—not out of compulsion but out of the new desire they have for God. The intent of Irresistible Grace is to bring regeneration.

In one view (Wesleyan) Faith precedes regeneration. The sinner is made aware of his present state, but has the ability to remain or to believe in the offer of God and have faith in God. Once the sinner has faith in God, God performs a work of Irresistible grace in which He regenerates the person. In this step, the person chooses first, then God chooses the person.

In the other view (Calvinism) regeneration precedes faith. The sinner is regenerated by God and made aware of his present state and the true nature of God. The person always responds in Faith because the ‘awareness’ is actually the sinner being regenerated. The sinner desires God after the regeneration and chooses to have faith and follow God. In this step, God chooses the person and then the person chooses God.

I hope I have been very even-handed to both approaches and I pray that all of us would ask God to reveal which is true, which is false, or if both are false.

God Bless

 2007/4/16 9:23Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
So it is not ‘the faith’ of the Son of God but ‘faith’.


Faith is a kind of knowlege from circumstantial evidence.
Actual knowlege is conclusive evidence or circumstantial evidence or fact.
One with circumstantial evidence would not have faith but have Actual knowlege.

Example:
I have faith [b]in[/b] Christ, because I never realy saw Him physicaly(substantial evidence), but I have circumstantial evidence of His word and witnesses the Apostles.

Jesus would/does not have faith at all but perfect knowlege(conclusive evidence) of GOD or
Jesus did only have circumstantial evidence, but actual knowlege.

Therefore, in context to reality you should have instructed them thus: "So it is not ‘the faith’ [b]of[/b] the Son of God but ‘faith’ [b]in[/b] the Son of God".

 2007/4/16 9:27Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Especially in light of Eph 2:8 -



How do you know the "it" is faith, rather than grace?


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Josh Parsley

 2007/4/16 10:49Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that bnot of yourselves: [i]it is[/i] the gift of God:


The "it" is in refrence to the Grace, not Faith.

Faith is not a gift, but a command, Grace is the Gift.

 2007/4/16 11:43Profile









 Re: Philologos

Quote:
This is Christwards and Sonlike faith, but it is not, I think, Christ’ faith instead of Paul’s faith.

I am having difficulty receiving that it's not "Christs' faith" that Paul is now living by.

It is without doubt that Paul reached perfection, and Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith.

There is an end to our faith, to which it carries us thru the trials and temptations to where Christ is fully grown up inside of us. The SEED was not meant to sit in our lives and not grow, that SEED is Christ.
Quote:
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

He that endures to the end the same shall be saved, that end is your faith, not the end of the world, as our carnal minds think.

When Christ has become grown in us, then comes to past which was spoken of in Habakkuk:
Quote:
Habakkuk 2:4..... the just shall live by his faith.

It's no longer I that liveth.

 2007/4/16 11:44
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
The "it" is in refrence to the Grace, not Faith.

Faith is not a gift, but a command, Grace is the Gift.



The 'it' refers to the Salvation. Salvation is a gift of God that begins in the grace of God and is funneled through the channel of Faith.

None of this is according to works but is all a gift of God.

For example, if A + B = C and C is a gift that cannot be earned. Would it be fair to say that B is entirely dependent upon us?

So to, Grace + Faith = Salvation and Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned. How do we then say that Faith is entirely us and is not part of the gift?


Ephesians 2:8 tells us that Faith is our part of the salvation process, but that Faith is not the reason for our salvation and it is not the basis of the salvation. What Ron is saying is that our Faith is a right response (our part) to the revelation of God's grace.

God does not have faith for us, but His grace enables us to have faith.

 2007/4/16 12:08Profile





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