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mjy
Member



Joined: 2009/9/10
Posts: 1


 Re:

awesome...
definitely agree with most if not everything..

i read that with no difficulty trying to clarify or even debate the matter.... i share your view on this becuase i believe it is Jesus centred .. keep at it.. that was the clearest explanation on the Kingdom i've read yet. and there was no need to put anyone down. God bless

God Bless

From what I know, Myles seems to misunderstand the distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven... and the fact that many of the things promised to those in the Kingdom of God are for a later time, after the resurrection of the saints. Remember that the Kingdom of God is not about food and drink, but about righteousness, peace and joy, in the holy ghost.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Myles teaches that our place in God's Kingdom gives us rights here on earth to be movers and shakers. But in relation to the here and now, the Kingdom of God is invisible, it is the spiritual place we enter in submission to the King to surrender our will and submit ourselves to His will. We learn servitude... not to reign at this time. The Kingdom resides within the heart and soul of true believers. In the present tense, it is not a Kingdom of Dominant kings, but of humble and meek servants. "The meek SHALL inherit the earth" at a later time, after Christ returns.

Remember that Christ did not come to conquere the Romans, but to conquere sin on our behalf. He says to us, "follow my example..."

The New Testament model in this Kingdom for the church on earth is to follow the example of Christ and to suffer for his namesake. As Christians, we have not been called to dominate society and claim it all with arrogant decrees, but to take up our cross and proclaim the gospel. I suspect that Myles Monroe teaching caters more to those who want power and authority rather than servitude and suffering.

From what I've seen and heard, it's about claiming things and taking things and demanding for things to happen in society that will bring about change and righteousness in the world. But changing society and politics is not what Christ came to do. We should be focusing on the Great Commission, not changing the world.

In relation to our heavenly reward, our objective is not to TAKE dominon of the earth but to look forward to the blessed hope which is the ressurrection of the saints and dwelling with the Lord. It's not until we get to heaven that there will be no more tears, pain, sorrow, etc... We don't use the law to enforce righteousness on society, but as a schoolmaster to show them their need for Christ. We're supposed to be humble servants, not proud possessors. In this church age, Christians are persecuted, put to death, or maligned for their beliefs and lifestyle. The Bible does not support a time when the church will dominate government and society before Christ's return. These claims are in complete opposition to end time prophecy.

One thing Myles says that I do agree with is that we need to realize we are occupants of a Kingdom, not members of a religion. However, I do suspect it is very close, if not complete Dominion theology.


 2009/9/10 1:03Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re: just asking

Quote:

IRONMAN wrote:
bro Provost
Quote:
He's a false teacher and if he is not all the teachings I have ever heard come out of his mouth in the name of Jesus and under the influence of the "Spirit" has been false. He preaches a completely man-centered gospel (which the Holy Spirit will have no part in) and I have seen him on TV prophesyin money b/c God gave him that "annointing"...nowhere in Scripture. He may be a swell and even educated guy, but his teaching is not Holy Spirit inspired b/c his "gospel" teaching is too man-centered to come from someone who truly has a heart burning for Jesus Christ.



an interesting perspective. how is his "gospel" "man centred?"

Quote:
Myles Munroe: "That's why angel's need our permission to function. It says they are here to do our bidding. They can't even act without our permission, you see. (But, here's the bigger statement:) Even God Himself is illegal on earth. Why? Because, He is a spirit and the law He set up by His own mouth was that only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally.



so how does God work on earth now?

Quote:
Myles MunroeLet me define prayer for you in this show. Prayer is man giving God permission or license to interfere in earth's affairs. In other words, prayer is earthly license for heavenly interference."



if we don't pray, what happens?

Quote:
"Heaven depends on earth for interference. If He [God] could just find two people like you [Benny Hinn] and I to agree. We agree for God to do this thing. Then God says, 'Thank you very much for permission!'



if God has in mind to do something through you, could He do it without your compliance?

Quote:
Our prayer is a strange experience. We normally ask God to do things, God is telling us to command Him permission to do it for us."



if God wants His will done here, should we not line up with what He wants to do? can He do this without our compliance?



Trying to understand,

I believe there is a difference in permission and compliance.

Let's say that we are praying the Lord's prayer for us when he said "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

Giving someone permission to do something places the person on a higher level than the one getting the permission. On the the other hand compliance is more like submitting to the higher person.

We are not suppose to have our own agenda that we need to give God permission to come and help us fulfill. We are suppose to be praying that the will of God will be done in our life on earth as it is in heaven by submitting to his authority.

God will not submit to our authority and he will not be thanking us for giving him permission to do anything. I am concern today when I hear people talk with a lack of respect for God. Jesus said that we need to fear the one(God)that had the power(authority) to send to hell. I don't want to go to hell and I don't even want to know anyone who does, but I am sure that the one's who are there didn't have to give God permission before he sent them there.

On this earth God is looking for a people who will submit to his authority and will, so that God can carry out his will in a people on this earth. Permission can make it sound like you are still the owner but submission turns the ownership over to God completely without any room for misunderstandings.


I will stop for now and may God bless all who reads!

 2009/9/11 18:03Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:


Hi Guys I am new here and after reading this there are a couple of points i want to raise. I know there is a tendency of human nature to judge people when what they say doesn’t fit into our world view so I implore you only to comment on what I have to say based on a sound holy ghost inspired conclusion (Exegesis)

1. Discernment and judgment of false prophets

“I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.”
Romans 16:17 (We are exhorted by scripture to identify and avoid those who teach heresy.)

“The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:” 1 Corinthians 2:15 (We are told by Jesus teachings never to condemn a fellow brother but rather edify and encourage. This is a different context to the judgment of spiritual matters like a false theology in which scripture clearly states we are to judge.)


“I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:26-27 (There is no better teacher of the scriptures than the Holy Spirit. Man may teach error but the Holy Spirit does not)

2. False teachers in the end times
The bible clearly teaches us that there will be many false teachers. And how to identify them. We should all examine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith or if we have erred. If there was many false teachers in the time of the apostles its is logical 2000 years later that there will still be false teachers if not even more. As you can see from 1Jn2:26-28 we have an anointing that teaches us all things including how to identify a false prophet. IF we cannot identify who these false prophets are it could be because we are deceived by our own hearts and have been led astray. The apostles were able to “identify and mark” false prophets and in a time when we have so many if we are still taught of the holy spirit shouldn’t we?

3: Scripture gives us criteria for identification of false teachers

“and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” 1 Tim 6-10 (Noticed the bit that says those eager for money have wandered or erred from the faith often false teachers focus on the love of money because their faithful followers would never think they love money but read the scriptures carefully and you will see that you cannot love money if you do not first desire it)

Read both books of timothy and Titus and pray that the holy spirit should teach you these truths.

Read Ezekiel 34

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.n their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.” 2 Peter 1-3

Believe it or not even in those days there where preaches who taught and thought that godliness was a means to financial gain. They taught error with a clear motive to exploit their followers they did this even in the time of Ezekiel

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn-bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20)”

If you also read Mark 4 you will see that in that parable Jesus says that thorns represents the desires of this world.

“Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” 1 John 2:15

Conclusion
I used to be a typical follower of Dr Myles Monroe. I was a brain washed Pentecostal that was taught to interpret the bible based on false theology. I was delivered by the Holy Spirit and began to see the truth for myself and I no longer listen to preachers like creflo dollar etc.

Holy Spirit

We are exhorted by the word to study the word of God. But when I was brain washed the only conclusions I could come to were those I was pre-positioned by indoctrination to come to.

The Holy Spirit taught me many fundamentals that led me to the truth I encourage everyone who still listens to preachers such as Monroe to read books on the following

1 Hermeneutics

2: Exegesis

3: Hebrew 6 , 7, 8 , 9

4: Romans 3,4,7,8

5: Entire book of Galatians

6: 2 Co 3
7.kingdom

Let us examine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith. An easy way to know if someone is teaching error is this. Look at the topic as it is taught in scripture does this match to what the preacher is saying? Does your preacher take a single verse and wretch it out of context then tell you what is supposed to mean. The New Testament teaches contentment is this you are taught our are you taught? or that it is okay not to be content? and that it is also okay to desire and thereby in doing so love money?
Also look at what Jesus actually taught about his kingdom. The kingdom of God is now and it is yet to come. We do not get to live as kings of earth now that’s false doctrine read revelation and you see that “to those that overcome the world they shall be given the crown of live” in the day of judgment some will receive damnation and others a crown of life to reign as kings. Our reign does not start on earth our ambassadorship is to reconcile and fallen world back to their creator “We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.” 2 Co 2:5:20

“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
” Romans 14:17



 2010/4/21 6:05Profile
Trinity07
Member



Joined: 2010/9/21
Posts: 1


 Re:

Hello!

I can say I have been studying Myles Munroe teachings for close to ten years. I think that you are confused by his teachings because you are putting a democratic (we live in a democracy and therefore understand democracy) imposed understanding on a kingdom principle.

Myles Munroe preaches 100% God's Word. He breaks down the Hebrew and Greek words to show us how we have been missing it all along. He preaches about God being a God of order, of purpose, of power, our MIGHTY CREATOR and KING. That is to be HIGHLY respected and exhaulted. Maybe the reason you think he preaches a man centered word is because you are not truly listening to him teach us how to truly serve a King in HIS Kingdom of Righteousness. If you really listen to him you will see that it is NOT about us at all! That we are here to carry out the mandate of God's Kingdom. How do we do that, we open our mouth and speak the word of God which invites heavenly interefernce. Jesus said you have not because you ask not. He goes on to say if you still have not it is because you pray amiss. Meaning you are not praying Gods will and principles into the situation at hand. See it's not by us but through us. Jesus said greater things then these will we do when the comforter comes. He also states these are the signs that follow those who believe mark 16:17. When you are praying Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. What that means is you are submitting to God's Kingdom laws and priciples of Heaven making Him your King, therefore the laws that rule in heaven are to take place right here on earth just as they do in heaven. See God doesn't do it because of us, He does it because of Him! When we speak His word and law out we are placing honor and respect on His laws and ways instead of the worlds. That is part of loving the Lord your God with all your heart, strength and mind. Of course God can still interfere in our lives without our consent. However, if you are going through spiritual warefare, Jesus gave YOU the keys, the armor to fight in HIS army. You fight with the word of God and knowing who He is and who you are in Him. Why would Jesus die so that you live a broken beat up life? There will always be a fight, but there is a difference when you understand true warfare you know how to win that fight. If you will read the word of God with a Kingdom understanding, you will start to see verses pop out at you that you read millions of times that now make sense. Jesus didn't say repent, for the Church and Religon is here. No! He said repent for the Kingdom of GOD is here! He said the Kingdom is now at hand. He said the Kingdom now today is within you. Jesus was the way the truth and the light, not the final destination. Jesus never preached of himself, He preached of the Father and HIS WILL. Why would satan tempt Jesus with the entire kingdom if this war isn't about kingdom things? Why would the first commandment be that THOU shall NOT place any other GODS before me? What was the first sin that truly occurred? It happened in heaven... Do you see, this isn't about religon. It is about what the word of God actually says! Read the four gospels again and when Jesus was preaching to the crowds, what did He preach? What did Paul really preach? Read Acts 14:22, 19:8 and 28:31. Listen saints we have been missing it and missing it BIG! Please read all of Matthew 24 and then read again Matthew 24:14! Jesus said, and THIS GOSPEL of the KINGDOM will be preached all over the world, THEN the END will come! We as the church have not been preaching the kingdom. Jesus said we are to preach the Kingdom.

See most christians today are about the "blessing and the promises of God" Where Myles Munroe is teaching us that the blessing is just the FRUIT of the one made the promise. That we don't need to stress about our finances or our jobs, because Jesus told us not to. First SEEK the KINGDOM OF GOD and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS (right standing) and THEN these things shall be added unto you. Look back over what you have been praying for... is it that Gods Kingdom rules and reigns in your life? That you are an active citzen carrying out His laws and dominion established in Gen 1:26 and given back to us through Christ? How do you measure your faith? Do you have faith that God is going to provide you with a house or car or promotion? We call that faith where God calls that fear... We once again are praying a miss and wondering why we are living in sickness, poverty and depression. We blame it on satan and life because we are too ignorant or lazy to learn who our King is and how Powerful He is! We think because we are christians that we automatically should have quick easy answers and do nothing to obtain it because we misunderstand grace. We are neglecting the real clashing and fight between two kingdom in our mind and world everyday! How exactly did Jesus teach us to pray and why are we to pray that way... Read again Jesus prayers with a kingdom understanding and you will see the power that He was teaching us.

Any person who has listened to most or all of his teachings will see how Myles Munroe backs scripture up with scripture and pulls out the character, personality and WILL of our maker. The problem is most christians don't seek the maker. Most christians come to the throne room only looking to get their quick fix and not serve the King. Saints obediance is being who we are called to be regardless of how we feel. That is truly picking up our cross and following him.

So many churchs are preaching the gospel of Jesus, but not the gospel that Jesus preached. So many are seeking after the promises of God instead of the God who made the promise.

Prayer in the hebrew actually means to petition. If you are a citzen in the kingdom, and the enemy who comes to kill, steal and destroy and if you know your rights as a child of the KING of KINGS your prayer life changes. It's prayer of power and effective because it is based off of GODS laws and principles. You can boldly approach the throne KNOWING that God will see to it that HIS word is accomplished (isa 56:11) We are to pray/petition because Jesus told us to. He said it, that ends it for me.

I challenge each Munroe basher to get on itunes and download the free podcast from Living Word Ministries that has guest speaker Munroe. Take your bible, cross reference EVERYTHING he says, take notes, full notes, and tell me where is teaching is man based or false. However, if you don't take the time to truly find out and TEST who he is and WHO he really preaches about, then you should stay silent. Proverbs says that even a fool will look wise when his words are few.

TEST and Reprove~ It's our duty! We are our brothers keeper!

 2010/9/21 14:40Profile
Giggles
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Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Trinity, presumably you are referring to th US as a democracy, of which it is not. The US is a republic. Probably a moot point in this 65 post thread.


_________________
Paul

 2010/9/21 15:14Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

When I came across this man on the net 5 yrs ago, I discerned him to be more of a business man than a man of God. However, that was after I watched about 10 of his sermons & read a few of his books. His preaching is much different than that of the early Church leaders like Paul & James, the Quakers, the Reformers, & the Puritans. Seemed more like a "Steps to Worldly Gain" gospel that he preached then.


_________________
Richie

 2010/9/21 18:53Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

The problem is not that what Monroe is saying cannot be found in the bible. The problem is that his understanding of eschatology is very bad and he is not a good Hebrew or Greek scholar. It is impossible to teach "the kingdom" without properly understanding eschatology. Our ambassadorship here on earth is to reconcile man to his God. Through the enabling of Gods power we demonstrate love, peace joy, miracles, signs and wonders and in a nutshell the Kingdom of God. These things we demonstrated are a foretaste of Gods kingdom when God himself will dwell with his people for eternity. Our job is to preach the gospel with power and lead people to his glorious kingdom. We experience the “kingdom now” thought the power of the Holy Ghost dwelling within us, regenerating us and enabling us. The”Kingdom to Come” is all in asleep in Christ will rise and reign for eternity with Christ.

Paul and the other apostles understood eschatology along the lines of kingdom now and kingdom to come. That’s why their eyes were firmed fixed on the “hope of their calling” which was the “kingdom to come” not anything they experienced on the earth.

Paul’s kingdom theology is remarkable. He was filled and baptised with the Holy Ghost performed many signs and wonders and without a doubt truly experienced the “kingdom now”. But the only earthly experience he took pride in was how he suffered for Christ. In fact he sums up with the great eschatological statement
Romans 8:17 (New International Version)
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Monroe does not teach the Kingdom Gospel. His teaching of Gods kingdom is misleading and dare I say borderline demonic. Yes we will reign with chirst, but that’s only after we first suffer for him in this present age. Anyone who tells you you shouldn’t suffer for the gospel and that Gods children are supposed to have all the best stuff is a false prophet.

Please be warned and I say with humility. The path that leads to life is a narrow road and few find it. Many will be lead on to roads that look like they lead to heaven but ultimately they will realise they were enticed unto a road that leads to destruction by their own covetousness.

 2010/9/22 5:52Profile
relent
Member



Joined: 2011/7/13
Posts: 2


 Re:

Who else can be quoated for devastating results from teachings of Dr.Myles Muroe except me. I lost everything of mine. I spent hundreds of Birr(our currency in Ethiopia) to buy his 25 Books only to find myself in unspeakable darkness. Here he introduces completly a new "school of thought" other than what the appostles strongly warned believers to have faith in the after-life. Out of his 25 books that I used to possess, one school of thought, is "Christ gave his life to make mankind buisnessmen, leaders, dominators, rulers, vice-reagent, etc,". I have concrete evidence as to where the origin of his teachins are. By the way I'm not judging him for it is the Lord himself who judges me and all. Generally, I sense too much uncertainty about the accuracy of thee Gospel when communicated by man. My last word is this dying for the cause of the Gospel as taught by the appostles' is something only the blessed-ones aquire.

 2011/7/13 10:43Profile
relent
Member



Joined: 2011/7/13
Posts: 2


 Re:

I don't know who you are what country you are from and at what age you stand. But let me forward few points which I believe should be shared. Let me first ask any one reading this message this:"Is there a difference or should/can we divide the message of the Gospel between the four Gospel of Christ and the teachings of the appostles(letters)? Can we dare to resolute that the appostles missed,missed, missed, missed, missed,etc, the message of our Lord Jesus Christ? If yes; then we will have enough background to persue Myls' teachings!!!!!!!!!! For all of them(appostles) in one voice postponed our hope to be in the life to come. Let our narrow-mind that poses logic to keep silent. Why? How? When, etc, all are good but also confusing to cost even one's salvation.

 2011/7/13 11:19Profile
svrn1lord
Member



Joined: 2011/7/13
Posts: 1


 Re: Suffering and the Kingdom of God

Hello! I'm new here, and just read the above post by RainMan. This Word of the importance of understanding how narrow is the way, is not being taught today. We are saved by grace alone, but to participation in the Kingdom (The 1000 year reign of Christ) is only by striving, to attain the prize, and is only to those who suffer with Christ. Paul's teachings address this issue. If salvation is what is in view, which is totally by grace, then why is Paul talking about striving to attain to, that no one take your crown,,,,many many scriptures. Also, the 7 churches in Revelation addressed in The first 3 chapters of the book promise the crowns, and promises only to the overcomers. To overcome, we must be daily in the Word, sold out to follow the commands of our Lord, which if we love Him, we will obey His commands, which are not burdensome. This is a huge subject, and I really just meant to say AMEN! And kind of went on and on. I'm so in love with the Word of God, I can't get enough. I'm learning so much, and have so much yet I haven't grasped yet. Praise God for the Holy Spirit that leads us into all truth! God Bless you brother!!

 2011/7/13 14:47Profile





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