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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Melchizedek - who was he?

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 Re:

To Philologos from Stever:

Nebuchadezzar's own words present his Faith in the God of the Bible-- the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The same God who was presented to him on various occasions by Daniel. Earlier, he only recognized Jehovah as one of many gods. After his seven years of insanity, brought upon him by God (Jehovah) he finally realises there is only one God, a God that he now extols and worships.




God bless,

Stever :-D

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Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
In conclusion, a saving faith has always been at the heart of salvation. Our works are nothing more than filthy rags to God Almighty.


which Bible says that "Nebuchadnezzar came to a believing, saving faith in the God and Messiah of the Bible"? Any version is OK.

 2007/2/7 18:28
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1830
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Quote:
But with that said, I disagree with the notion that Melchizedek was a pagan priest.



I agree with you here Abraham would not be hanging around with a Pagan Priest

Genesis 14:21-24
21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, F75 and take the goods to thyself. 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet,

Abram does not even want to hang out with the King of Sodom for a moment. Why would he want to hang out with a Pagan Priest.

Jewish Tradition serves my idea better if it was Shem or Noah.


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2007/2/7 18:35Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
After his seven years of insanity, brought upon him by God (Jehovah) he finally realises there is only one God, a God that he now extols and worships.


...and the Messiah?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/2/7 18:57Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1830
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Silly me!! I forgot the person that I think of the most!!
DOm


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2007/2/7 19:31Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

"I agree with you here Abraham would not be hanging around with a Pagan Priest"

Pagan Priest, = a gentile King and Priest of the most high God. Not just the exiled brother of Shem and Japheth, being Ham and of his kingdom.

Melchizedek and Abraham. God immortalizes this encounter between Melchizedek and Abraham by renaming the city in honor of them: the name Yeru (derived from Yireh, the name Abraham gives to Mount Moriah after unbinding Isaac, and explained in Genesis as meaning that God will be revealed there) is placed in front of Shalem.[14]

Yirehshalem: Jerusalem

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/2/7 20:48Profile
Jimbabwean
Member



Joined: 2007/1/29
Posts: 17
USA

 Re:

I am thankful that KingJimmy gave testimony to the truth that this argument of Melchizedek being a pagan priest is not mine, but held by many scholars.

I liked the objection that KingJimmy raised concerning the blessing when he quotes Hebrews 7:7 "It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior." Okay, so it is beyond dispute that Melchizedek had authority over Abraham, we’d be wise to accept that!

Here’s one PhD’s point on this particular issue:

Melchizedek was a local king living in Jerusalem (most likely), and Abraham was not a king, therefore was under Melchizedek’s authority. The Arabs of the day, had this custom of taking 10% from their people as a tax on military conquests. The tax in question is called the Esretu. Abraham had grown up in Chaldea, and knew of this custom. He was merely paying the customary tax.

Could a pagan bless a godly man?

My irreligious neighbor stopped by to help one day, as I was removing a half fallen tree from our yard. He was half drunk, but out of the charity of his heart had decided to help me. I was really blessed by his gesture.

PCB says “Tts 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.”, and I agree with him on that too. Except for one thing, for some of us, this thing of Melchizedek has been used to extort tithes from us by making us feel like that if we’re not tithing, then we’re stealing from Jesus, because Jesus is supposedly Melchizedek, and even Abraham tithed to Melchizedek.

Like my friend crsschk, I also had a brush with the prosperity church in the past. The issue of money was one that drove Jesus to anger.

It is my hope that in breaking free from the bondage that I felt to tithe, that I will remain a cheerful giver. I have given much of my wealth away as it is, and somehow we still survive, and run a ministry. I love giving, and was quite happy to tithe, but when the wheels fell off at times, I would feel bad that I couldn’t tithe. Now I realize that I don’t have to tithe, and feel free to give whatever I want. I also realize that I had most of my mishaps during my tithing years, contrary to what is supposed to happen according to the prosperity preachers who quote Malachi 3.

Crsschk, you complain that you know little about my identity. I had to smile at that. Isn’t that what we are all protesting about Melchizedek? At least one thing you can be sure of, I am not Melchizedek!

I’d like to thank Sermon Index for the great website! I have been an unregistered user over the years, and consider it one of the best Christian websites. The forum has helped me think through some of my thoughts on this, and hear the sort of objections that are out there, and to gage the kind of views people have. So, I feel that it has been a positive experience all round. If I have caused upset, sorry for that. It wasn’t my intention to do so.

Blessings on you, in the name of Jesus.

 2007/2/7 22:24Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Could a pagan bless a godly man?

My irreligious neighbor stopped by to help one day, as I was removing a half fallen tree from our yard. He was half drunk, but out of the charity of his heart had decided to help me. I was really blessed by his gesture.



This is not quite the same thing as what Melchizedek did. The Bible places a great emphasis on blessings that are spoken. So much so that Jacob deceived his father into thinking that he was Esau so that he might obtain that blessing. For such blessings were looked at as being prophetic pronouncements. Speaking such a blessing wasn't exactly the same thing as "just tryin' to be a blessin" (in the good Southern hospitable/neighborly sense). To pronounce a blessing was essentially to call whatever thing one said into reality.

Likewise, when the children of Israel were wandering through the wilderness, the prophet Balaam was hired by the enemies of Israel to pronounce a curse on Israel. For just as blessings were seen as prophetic declarations, so were curses. Therefore, if Balaam could pronounce a curse on Israel, if he made such a statement, it was a prophetic declaration that essentially called whatever was said into reality.

Likewise, the Levitical priests were required to bless Israel before they went out to war, and to proclaim, "The Lord bless you, and make His face to shine upon you...". Without this blessing, the armies of Israel simply would not prosper in war.

Thus, we as Christians who have priestly authority are to "bless, and not curse."

But with that said. What Melchizedek did was more than simply "be a blessing" to Abraham. He was a person in position to actually pronounce a blessing. What he spoke was of prophetic significance. What actually motivated Melchizedek in coming out is not entirely spelled out in Scripture. Indeed, perhaps it was just due to the local Arab customs. But that doesn't change the fact that he was indeed a legitimate priest in the eyes of God. Nor does that make him greedy.


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/7 22:49Profile









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
After his seven years of insanity, brought upon him by God (Jehovah) he finally realises there is only one God, a God that he now extols and worships.


...and the Messiah?


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Stever responds:

Nebuchadnezzar’s change from one of the most powerful, rotten world leaders, similar to the likes of Hitler, to a man with a personal relationship with the God of the universe is perhaps the most amazing true stories ever written. Not only did he come into personal relationship and worship with God, his life was totally changed. It affected the way that he ruled the world- it changed his whole world rule.

If we read closely, we see that once his pride was broken (after 7 years of insanity), he looked up to God and [b][color=0000FF]HIS HEART WAS CHANGED[/color][/b] once he met the Living God--- "and he lifted his eyes up toward God and he came out of his insanity. At that point his understanding returned, he blessed the most High God, and praised and honored Him that lives forever, whose dominion is an EVERLASTING DOMINION, and His kingdom is from Generation to Generation."

[b][color=0000FF]What we see here is a changed life. The fruits of his changed life resulted in a personal relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, that involved WORSHIP & PRAISE, as well as dramatic change in how he viewed himself-"as nothing".


Did he meet the Messiah and the Holy Spirit when he met God? The Bible doesn’t say, but Spiritual discernment leads me to believe that he is indeed saved and in Heaven, waiting for the resurrection.[/color][/b]

Daniel 4:34-37 (KJV)

34. And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35. And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
36. At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellers and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
37. Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

God Bless,

Stever :-D

 2007/2/7 22:59
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Steve asked:

Quote:
P.S. You comprende?



I seached each Scripture presented that contained the greek word tupos... I understand that yes, whether it is Paul asking others to follow his example, or Paul asking us to learn from the examples given to us in Scripture, we are being transformed into His image the by power of the Holy Spirit...

What I do not find in Scripture is the word "tupos" being used to describe Melchizedec as an example of Christ.

To be more concise...Scripture states that Christ functions as the High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedec." The Scriptures point to an authority not an example. And that authority was spoken of by the Father of His Son long before He became flesh...

Do you see the diffence between type and function?

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/7 23:02Profile









 Re:

Stever responds to Brother Jeff (Rookie):

Eastons Bible Dictionary of 1897 gives us clarification about this issue:


Topics: Melchiz'edek

Text: king of righteousness, the king of Salem (q.v.). All we know of him is recorded in Gen. 14:18-20. He is subsequently mentioned only once in the Old Testament, in Ps. 110:4. The typical significance of his history is set forth in detail in the Epistle to the Hebrews, ch. 7. The apostle there points out the superiority of his priesthood to that of Aaron in these several respects,

(1.) Even Abraham paid him tithes;

(2.) he blessed Abraham;

(3.) he is the TYPE of a Priest who lives for ever; (LIKE CHRIST)

(4.) Levi, yet unborn, paid him tithes in the person of Abraham; (Because Levi was in Abrahams loins)

(5.) the permanence of his priesthood in CHRIST implied the abrogation of the Levitical system;

(6.) he was made priest not without an oath; and

(7.) his priesthood can neither be transmitted nor interrupted by death : "this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood."
(LIKE CHRIST)

Rejoicing in His daily purposes,

Stever :-D
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Quote:

rookie wrote:
Brother Steve asked:

Quote:
P.S. You comprende?



I seached each Scripture presented that contained the greek word tupos... I understand that yes, whether it is Paul asking others to follow his example, or Paul asking us to learn from the examples given to us in Scripture, we are being transformed into His image the by power of the Holy Spirit...

What I do not find in Scripture is the word "tupos" being used to describe Melchizedec as an example of Christ.

To be more concise...Scripture states that Christ functions as the High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedec." The Scriptures point to an authority not an example. And that authority was spoken of by the Father of His Son long before He became flesh...

Do you see the diffence between type and function?

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

 2007/2/7 23:23





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