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PosterThread
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1799
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Abraham would not have paid respect to a pagan king else he would have paid respect to the king of sodom or any other king.
Abraham would not have taken any notice of a righteous priest either.
I Think it has to be someone abit more special!!


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2007/2/5 20:51Profile









 Re: Melchizedek - who was he?

Quote:

Jimbabwean wrote:
Do you think that Melchizedek was actually Jesus? Or was he merely a priest of YHWH? Or was he, dare I say it, a pagan priest making a quick buck off Abraham?



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Stever's response:

I once heard the explanation that Melchizedek was Shem, the son of Noah.

If, as Hebrew tradition and the Apocrypha holds, Melchizedek was Shem, the son of Noah and survivor of the Pre-Flood world, he was the OLDEST LIVING MAN, THE LAST MAN OF THE PATRIARCHAL PERIOD, OF THE WHOLE LIVING POPULATION OF THE EARTH. Then, sometime previous to Abram's coming, Melchizedek had taken possession in the name of God, of JERUSALEM. Other sources teach that since he was said to have no mother or father (since His father Noah and his mother had already died, and he came from the other side of the flood), he is considered as a TYPE of the pre-existent Messiah that will come in the future (just like Moses is a TYPE of Christ as well.

We know very little about the king-priest Melchizedek. These descriptions are of course disputed but we need not know who he was but rather THAT the Melchizedek priesthood is for the Christian. Melchizedek lived to be 600 years old, and would have been about 98 years old at the time of the flood. He would continue living another 503 years after the flood, and would have definitely had the chance of meeting Abraham in the promised land. Abraham was about 145 years old when Melchizedek died at age 600 years (Abraham lived about another 30 years, until he died) . Melchizedek, was king and founder of Ur Salem (JERUSALEM). ABRAM believed the two of them SERVED THE SAME GOD. Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek and this is the first record of any priest of God in the Bible. As far as we know, Melchizedek was the only priest at that time --SO IF HE WAS CHOSEN AS A HIGH PRIEST, IT WOULD BE OVER THE PRIESTHOOD IN GENERATIONS TO COME. We do know that he was a king and a servant to mankind making him a [b][size=small]TYPE OF CHRIST[/size][/b]. The writer of Hebrews says that he was "made like unto the Son of God." Jesus was made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedec.

[i][b][size=small]Some other things to consider about Shem:[/size][/b][/i]

Shem was not the “first born” son of Noah. In Genesis 10:21 it tells us that Japeth was the elder (oldest) of the two. Shem is listed in first order because he is in the lineage to the Messiah ie: He received the blessing (Genesis 9:26 & Luke 3:36)

Hope this helps!

God bless,

Stever 8-)

 2007/2/5 21:39
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
Mechisedec was a real flesh and blood king of ancient times who lived long before Christ ‘became flesh’ and before God the Son ‘became’ a High Priest. He is a mysterious character who only appears for a few verses and then vanishes from the record as an individual.



With this statement, does it mean that there exists another like Christ in God's "economy?"

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/5 22:57Profile









 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
Mechisedec was a real flesh and blood king of ancient times who lived long before Christ ‘became flesh’ and before God the Son ‘became’ a High Priest. He is a mysterious character who only appears for a few verses and then vanishes from the record as an individual.



With this statement, does it mean that there exists another like Christ in God's "economy?"

In Christ
Jeff



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Moses is a TYPE of Christ, the same as Melchidezek is a TYPE of Christ.

God bless,

Stever :-D

 2007/2/5 23:08
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

It should be noted that just because the Jebusites were hardcore pagans at the time when Joshua fought them, doesn't mean they were corrupt nearly 500 years prior when Abraham met Melchizedek! Hebrews argues that Jesus is a high priest according to this order simply because "God says so." For under the law, one was a priest based on pedigree. But Christ was made a priest, like Melchizedek, not based upon any pedigree, but simply because, "God says so."


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/5 23:18Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Convenience

"Convenient titles"?

What is still absurd is that you are setting up a straw-man of an argument based on pure speculation rather than appealing to what the text states.

Forget the issue of whether or not Melchizedek was the Lord. The 'types' here is obvious enough as is explained by Hebrews. How often is the mention of the word [i]order[/i]? That is the main issue I am trying to force into the open here.

Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order (H1700) of Melchizedek.

[b]Order[/b]
H1700
דּברה
dibrâh
dib-raw'
Feminine of H1697; a reason, suit or style: - cause, end, estate, order, regard.

[b]Psa 110:4 -
The Lord hath sworn[/b] - He has confirmed the appointment of the Messiah by a solemn oath, or as by an oath. That is, It is as sure and fixed as if he had taken an oath. Compare Heb_6:13. The “time,” so to speak, if the word time can be applied to transactions in a past eternity, was that when he was designated in the divine purpose as Messiah; in the eternal counsels of God. Compare Psa_2:7.

[b]And will not repent[/b] - Will not change his purpose.

[b]Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek[/b] - The word rendered “order” here means properly a word, a thing, a matter; hence, a way or manner. The meaning here is, that he would be a priest “after the manner” of Melchizedek; or, such a priest as he was. He would not be of the tribe of Levi; he would not be in the regular line of the priesthood, but he would resemble, in the characteristics of his office, this ancient priest-king, combining in himself the two functions of priest and king; as a priest, standing alone; not deriving his authority from any line of predecessors; and having no successors. See this verse explained at length, in its application to the Messiah, in the notes at Heb_5:6 (note), Heb_5:10 (note); Heb_7:1-3 (note). The passage as it stands here, and as looked at without any reference to the use made of it in the New Testament, would imply these things:

(1) That he who was spoken of would be, in a proper sense, a priest.

(2) that he would have a perpetual or permanent priesthood - “forever.”

(3) that he would not be of the established line of priests in the tribe of Levi, but that his appointment would be unusual and extraordinary.

(4) that the appointment would come directly from God, and would not be “derived” from those who went before him.

(5) that as a priest he would “resemble” Melchizedek, according to the record which was found of Melchizedek in Genesis.

(6) that as Melchizedek was a priest of the Most High God, so he would be.

(7) that as Melchizedek combined in himself the functions of both priest and king, so these would be found in him.

(8) that as Melchizedek had no successors in office, so he would have none.

How far these things were applicable to the Lord Jesus Christ, and with what propriety the passage might be applied to him, may be seen by examining the Epistle to the Hebrews, Heb. 5–7.

John Gill

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the [b]order[/b] of Melchisedec.

[b]Order[/b]
G5010
τάξις
taxis
tax'-is
From G5021; regular arrangement, that is, (in time) fixed succession (of rank or character), official dignity: - order.

Besides these first two, Heb 5:10, 6:20, 7:11, 7:17, and 7:21 all state [i]after the order of Melchisedec[/i]. Except in Heb 7:15 where it is rendered;

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the [b]similitude[/b] of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

[b]Similitude[/b]
G3665
ὁμοιότης
homoiotēs
hom-oy-ot'ace
From G3664; resemblance: - like as, similitude.

If there is anything to be deduced from all of this it is in the character, in dignity, righteousness.

"Heb 7:4 [b]Now consider how great this man was[/b], unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

You wish to make the Lord Jesus typified by a mere pagan priest out for a money grab? And think that is not absurd?

Blaspheme


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Mike Balog

 2007/2/5 23:55Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Steve wrote:

Quote:
Moses is a TYPE of Christ, the same as Melchidezek is a TYPE of Christ.



The writer of Hebrews makes this distinction between Moses and Christ...

Heb. 3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.


Moses was faithful in all His house, but it is Christ who built the house...

It was Christ who built the house for Moses and the children of Israel.

Has anyone ever considered who the Holy One of Israel is according to Scripture?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/6 0:33Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Going along with Brother Mikes thoughts...

For what pupose did God establish the "priestly order of Melchizedec?"

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/6 0:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Brother Steve wrote:

Quote:
Moses is a TYPE of Christ, the same as Melchidezek is a TYPE of Christ.



The writer of Hebrews makes this distinction between Moses and Christ...

Heb. 3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.


Moses was faithful in all His house, but it is Christ who built the house...

It was Christ who built the house for Moses and the children of Israel.

Has anyone ever considered who the Holy One of Israel is according to Scripture?

In Christ
Jeff


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever responds to Rookie:

It might help to explain what the word TYPE actually means:

Topics: Type

Text: occurs only once in Scripture (1 Cor. 10:11, A.V. marg.). The Greek word tupos is rendered "print" (John 20:25), "figure" (Acts 7:43; Rom. 5:14), "fashion" (Acts 7:44), "manner" (Acts 23:25), "form" (Rom. 6:17), "example" or "ensample" (1 Cor. 10:6, 11; Phil. 3:17; 1 Thess. 1:7; 2 Thess. 3:9; 1 Tim. 4:12). IT PROPERLY MEANS A "MODEL" OR "PATTERN" OR "MOLD" into which clay or wax was pressed, that it might take the FIGURE or exact shape of the mould. The word "type" is generally used to denote A RESEMBLANCE BETWEEN SOMETHING PRESENT AND SOMETHING FUTURE, which is called the "antitype."

THE "TYPE" IS NEVER THE REAL DEAL. IT ONLY POINTS TO THE REAL THING.

God bless,

Stever :-D

 2007/2/6 1:17
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
With this statement, does it mean that there exists another like Christ in God's "economy?"


There are many 'like' Christ. The Aaronic priesthood with its anointed (Christed) priest, the Mediator of the covenant, Moses. The anointed (Christed) king, David. Isaac the son of the Father who passed through death and received his bride. Joshua-Jesus who took his people into the fulfillment of the promise. The Beloved in the Song. The offerings and sacrifices. Adam.... and many another. But there is only one Jesus Christ.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/2/6 1:56Profile





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