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UniqueWebRev
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 Re: Which Bible?

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
The Bible teaches us that Nebuchadnezzar came to a believing, saving faith in the God and Messiah of the Bible, and will be in heaven with us, forever:


which Bible?



At the time of Daniel, there was in existence much of the same Bible that Jesus used. The Torah was available, some of the Prophets, the Proverbs, Psalms, The Song of Solomon, as well as many non-canonical texts that could be used for exposition, as there was no strict canon at the time except for the Torah.

The New Covenant of the Bible is primarily a restatement of a good deal of the Old Testament, other than the Prophecies from Jesus and the Apostles.

Please don't be misled by the term Bible. It covers a good deal more ground than Christians are generally suppose it to be about. Also, please don't forget that the translators used the term Bible rather indescriminately, whereas I can find no actual usuage of the word bible in Daniel at all.

Nebuchadnezzar actually said in Daniel 4:36-37. [color=CC3300]36. At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellers and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me. 37. Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.[/color]

Blessings,


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/2/28 6:05Profile
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 Re: Who Nebuchadnezzar worshiped:

Quote:

deltadom wrote:
Silly me!! I forgot the person that I think of the most!!
DOm



Dom,

The Messiah was not known at Nebuchadnezzar's time except in concept, and most certainly not Jesus, 'the suffering servant' Messiah, but as Messiah as the King in Glory. Nebuchadnezzar was extolling the 'King of Heaven', not His Son, although the Son existed in the King of Heaven from before the beginning of time.

Blessings,


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/2/28 6:18Profile
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 Re: Tithing

Quote:

Jimbabwean wrote:

PCB says “Tts 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.”, and I agree with him on that too. Except for one thing, for some of us, this thing of Melchizedek has been used to extort tithes from us by making us feel like that if we’re not tithing, then we’re stealing from Jesus, because Jesus is supposedly Melchizedek, and even Abraham tithed to Melchizedek.

Like my friend crsschk, I also had a brush with the prosperity church in the past. The issue of money was one that drove Jesus to anger.

It is my hope that in breaking free from the bondage that I felt to tithe, that I will remain a cheerful giver. I have given much of my wealth away as it is, and somehow we still survive, and run a ministry. I love giving, and was quite happy to tithe, but when the wheels fell off at times, I would feel bad that I couldn’t tithe. Now I realize that I don’t have to tithe, and feel free to give whatever I want. I also realize that I had most of my mishaps during my tithing years, contrary to what is supposed to happen according to the prosperity preachers who quote Malachi 3.




How many times have I heard this one before?

Pray, why are we not to tithe, when Jesus said, in KJV Matthew 23:[color=993300]23. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.[/color]

I don't recall Jesus being angry about money ever, merely the turning of the temple into a bank and a market. Elsewhere, Jesus was mostly sad about how hard it was for the wealthy (and by this, He meant anyone who puts their trust in something that can be taken away) to get into heaven.

I give my tithes and offerings, not to the the Levites, or the Churches, but to the ministries Christ praised.

KJV Matthew 25:[color=993300]34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38. When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39. Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.[/color]

I do not hold with the abuse of prosperity teaching, but it is written, in the New Testament, in Luke 6:38. [color=993300] Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.[/color] This means love, concern, trust, patience, love, gentleness, and so forth, not merely money!

I give tithes because Abraham gave them to Melchezidek, and Jesus repeated our obligation, for where he spoke not to Jews, He spoke to Gentiles, in the Abrahamanic covenant, for it is there we Christians are grafted into the promises, and the obligations.

Nothing is received by those that give not out of a cheerful heart, and not to get anything, except the blessing promised in Malachi, where God allows us to test Him on the tithe. For it is said there that we will receive a blessing too big for us to hold. It doesn't say a thing about money being that blessing!

I fear that many of you will do anything to get out of paying the tenth we owe to God that proves to Him that we trust Him more than money, and that we worship Him, not the power that money gives.

Respectfully,


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/2/28 7:43Profile
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 Re: Speculation

Quote:

murdog wrote:
Stever,

You call out Ron as a person who gives new meaning to the term Carnal Christian and he needs to be born again so that he can see! Yikes, I wish I was as blind as Ron is! Did you ever read in the scriptures about treating older men as Fathers, and then there was that commandment about honouring Fathers and Mothers.

It is one thing to disagree...

Jimbabwean,

By the way, it is totally inconsistent with the scriptures to allude to the fact that Melchizedek was a money grubbing pagan who pulled one over on Abraham! We may not know alot about him, but come on!

Murray



Murdog,

Thank you for stomping on all the speculation.

We don't know a lot about Melchezidek because God did not choose that we should.

As far as Abraham giving a tithe to Melchezidek, I can only assume that as we Gentiles are grafted into Abraham, not unto Moses, that this was given purely to give the example of giving a tithe, because this is the only thing mentioned in this scripture. The portion about Jesus being ordained after the manner of Melchezidek is a seperate passage, with a seperate emphasis.

Blessings,


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 Re: Melchizadek as a representation of the Most High

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Good morning all.

I've read through this thread and I believe, like Rookie and I think Mike, that Melchizedek was not a man that was born, lived and died, or at all any sort of pagan priest or any sort of priest that lived in the surrounding area(at least I think they believe that also). My opinion is that this was a Theophany, in a similar way to Genesis 18:1-2 and Exodus 34:5 for instance.


In verse 3 of Hebrews 7, the author goes well beyond suggesting that there is no record for the genealogy of Melchizedek. He goes so far beyond it as to say of this [b]man[/b], that he had



[i][b] neither beginning of days[/b][/i]


[i][b]nor end of life[/b][/i]


There was a mystery here in the Old Testament which I believe the author of Hebrews is now unfolding by the Holy Spirit according to Christ's words:


[b][color=660033]Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.[/color][/b]


I see this here as the graciousness of the Holy Spirit illuminating an obscure event in the history of redemption by giving to us knowledge which was not before revealed.

Are there not so many who come and go, that flash upon the pages of sacred history without any record of their descent? And yet of which of them was it ever said

they had...


[i][b] neither beginning of days[/b][/i]


[i][b]nor end of life[/b][/i]


I know not any.

That the [i]scribe[/i] here also unfolds for us that this Melchizedek is also called


[i][b] King of righteousness[/b][/i]

and...

[i][b] King of peace[/b][/i]

speaks also to me of his being other than a natural man. Of Whom could it be said

"He is King of Righteousness and King of Peace"?

Where do these meet?


[i]Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.[/i]

Is this not the name of the Lord which He declared unto Moses saying

"The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty..."

That He is forgiving speaks of His mercy.

That He will by no means clear the guilty speaks of His truth.

And yet are not these two met in the Lord Jesus, wherefore it is written of Him

[i]...and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[/i]


How then can this Melchizedek have such a name, except he was in some fashion the presence of Him to Whom it belongs?



Peace be with you all in Christ.




Beautifully stated, particularly since Abraham, who knew God intimately, would also know Him in any incarnation, even as Abraham recognized the Angell of God (Jesus) and the other angels immediately.

Many blessings,


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Forrest Anderson

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 Re:

Brother Forrest,

Why do you think so many have such a hard time acknowledging the works of Christ in the OT?


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

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 Re:

There is a difference in the works of Christ in the Old Testament and the New Testament. There was no sacrifice on the Cross, There was not death, burial and resurrection in the old testament. The only sacrifice was of animals and their blood. There is no comparison in animal sacrifice and the Cross. Only as a picture of what Christ would do.

There was not a born again exchange of Life in Christ in the old testament. The old was pointing to what Christ would do. The New is giving what Christ has already done. "Ye must be born again to see the things of the kingdom".
Old testament saints were partially saved by works and sacrifice, which only covered sins, not taking sin away and dying to sin in the Life of Christ Jesus.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Old testament Patriarchs could not be born again or from above. The could not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. They could not even know His name. They could believe that there was a coming savior, but not what Jesus Himself said He would build His Church upon. 1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

This is that picture, the older church will serve the younger. The church of God, Israel, the wife of God will serve the New Church, the Body of Christ. This story in fullness also shows how the Body of Christ and the Israel of God will work out things in the Parousia.

Romans 9:10-12 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Romans 9:6-9 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

The Seed is Christ the Promise. The Born Again have this Seed in them. The Seed is the promise prepared before the foundation of the World. Romans 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Son's of God by the birth of Christ in them, a new creation race of People. Christ-ones, Christians, only and first call Christians in Antioch. Romans 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Abraham was made a father of many nations. He was not made our Father by Jesus Christ that is born again in us.

Romans 4:17-25 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

There is a difference.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/3/4 6:27Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:



Quote:
Old testament saints were partially saved by works and sacrifice, which only covered sins, not taking sin away and dying to sin in the Life of Christ Jesus.



J. Vernon McGee writes in his commentary of Leviticus...

"Leviticus gives the order and rules of worship in the tabernacle. The Hebrew word "Vayikrah" opens the book, and it means "and He called." God moves into the tabernacle and speaks from there rather than from Mount Sinai. He calls the people to Him and tells them how to come. This is the exact meaning of the church--ekklesia, "called out ones." The Lord Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice." (John 10:27)

"Dr S. H. Kellogg called it (the book of Leviticus), the "greatest book" in the Bible. Dr. Albert C Dudley called it "the most important book in the Bible." Dr. Parker said, "Considered as embracing the history of one month only, this may claim to be the most remarkable book in the Old Testament."

This book was given to Israel for direction in living as a holy nation in fellowship with a holy God. It was a code of law for the total well being of Israel--physical, moral, and spiritual. Sacrifice, ceremony, ritual, liturgy, instructions, washings, convocations, holy days, observances, conditions, and warnings crowd this book. All of these physical exercises were given to teach spiritual truths. Paul states that "these things were our examples" (1 Corinthians 10:16)

Leviticus reveals Christ. Tyndale, in his Prologue into the Third Book of Moses, said, "Though sacrifices and ceremonies can be no ground or foundation to build upon--that is, through we can prove nought with them--yet when we have once found Christ and His myteries, then we may borrow figures, that is to say, allegories, similitudes, and examples, to open Christ, and the secrets of God hid in Christ, even unto the quick; anc can declare them more lively and sensibly with them than with all the words of the world."

For us it gives the direction to God and instructions for spiritual worship. Worship would take on a new meaning if the average Christian properly appreciated the contents of this book. Worship for us today is no longer by ritual or in a specific place...

MESSAGE: The message is twofold:

1. Leviticus teaches that the way to God is by sacrifice.

The word atonement occurs 45 times.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." (Leviticus 17:11)

Atonement means to cover up. The blood of bulls and goats did not actually take away sin. It covered over until Christ came to take away our sins.

"Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God." (Romans 3:25)

2. Leviticus teaches that the walk with God is by sanctification. The word holiness occurs 87 times.

"And ye shall be holy unto me; for I, the Lord, am holy, and have seperated you from other people, that ye should be mine." (Leviticus 20:26)

(end of McGee's thought)

McGee later says that if we would come to understand the book of Leviticus and see Christ in it, that would prevent us from falling into all kinds of cults and stumbling blocks that are present in todays "religion."


Do you see Christ in the OT Brother Phillip?

In Christ
Jeff






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