""He wouldn't take it away, but we can choose to leave His family.""
God is justified by Christ on the Cross to not allow that to happen to those that are His son's.
""Why would God create humans when He knew that Adam and Eve would sin?""
Because He is in control and knows exactly what He is doing to make son's for His House.
Romans 9:19-23 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
In Christ: Phillip
| 2007/2/12 3:19||Profile|
| Re: What Scriptures Do Eternal Security People Use?|
Brother, do you really want to be sure whether you can or can't lose salvation? Read everything (in the bible) that concerns salvation. I believe we can lose salvation. I wasn't sure before, so I investigated. So my advice is investigate for yourself:
[b][color=CC0000]THIS IS LIFE AND DEATH[/color][/b]
[b]THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
SO INVESTIGATE![/b] I advise you to start by these sites below:
[i]Is OSAS an indispensible part of the gospel and what the Bible teaches, or is this the same lie that the old serpent, Satan, has used since he deceived Eve in the Garden when he assured her, Ye shall not surely die?"[/i]
(This is a quote from this site below)
http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/index.html (this site has Q & A about OSAS)
Godbless you, and may he open your eyes to the truth.
- João Tiago
| 2007/3/6 7:30||Profile|
As I have studied I do not believe in ES....but I tell ya what, when you stop looking at "particulars" and just gaze at Jesus, and bring all your questions to Him...you can be assured that you're going to be in heaven.
Just give everything to Jesus and your eternal standing is secure.
| 2007/3/6 9:29||Profile|
The phrase 'Once Saved always Saved' is misleading because it implies that a person can make a profession of faith and keep living in sin.
Perseverance of the Saints is the doctrine that only those who abide in Christ and persevere through the trials of life are truly saved and they will enter into Heaven.
Perseverance of the Saints states the truth of Scripture in 2 Timothy 2:19, "...Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity."
| 2007/3/6 10:33||Profile|
El Paso, Texas
Is this topic just gonna keep regurgitating itself over and over and over?
| 2007/3/6 15:05||Profile|
THIS IS LIFE AND DEATH
If you and I disagree on this, are only one of us going to heaven?
This whole Armeniam vs Calvanism thing is new to me.
Is there a winner and loser? Or will both Calvanists and Armeniams be in heaven together?
| 2007/3/6 16:52||Profile|
| Re: "In Christ and cannot get out"|
You ought to read the other half of Paul's letters and not just what you like.
Can a true son lose his sonship? The answer must be absolutely not. Think of it. In the natural if your father said, "You are not my son." Would it be true? Of course not. You were born of him. By the same token, if you said to him, "I am not your son." Would that be true? Once again assuredly not.
However, if you said, "I am not your son and I want nothing from you." Where would that leave you? Would you recieve anything from him? If you were true to your word you could not. If your father said to you, "You are not my son and I will give you nothing!" Is it likely that he would?
The assurance from God's word tells us that he will never disown us (as you have constantly pointed out). The other aspect you so correctly pointed out is we cannot earn our position as sons and we cannot err to lose it.
The tension always comes in two parts. Firstly, do we have the right to call ourselves sons if we do not behave as sons? Even nature shows us that sons are almost always immitators of their father. Therefore: if I behave like the devil, who's son am I? The second is like it? What if I should choose to no longer own him as my Father? Should I then be allowed to share his inheritance? Whilst we are on inheritance, remember Esau - who was before the law? He sold his birthright. What does it say of him? "Esau I have hated." Did Esau retain his birthright? No, Jacob received it.
Now I am exceedingly glad that you show you do not want to "get out". That is good. I trust you will remain that way for, if you do a son cannot lose his sonship and every blessing is truly yours.
For those who fear losing their salvation, be of good cheer, Jesus said, "None will pluck you from my hand." If our hearts condemn us we have the witness of the Spirit of God. Jesus said, "My yolk is easy and my burden is light." Do not weigh yourself down with disputeable doubts.
God loves you
| 2007/3/6 20:50||Profile|
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Opinions are interesting but scripture is scripture. If there are any objections than they should be explaining the verses I posted below.
And yes, this topic is really showing itself to be a repeated topic. :)
| 2007/3/7 5:28||Profile|
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
These two verses are to his church right? He says He wont blot out someones name from the book of life who overcomeths, but what about who doesn't? Once again being lukewarm, to spew something out of your mouth doesn't sound to good to me. Once again it is to his church.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
Once again we have someones name being blotted out. To blot something out, it had to be in it in the first place right?
I don't want to argue my point, I just wanted to ask about these scriptures. There is many more that says the same.
| 2007/3/7 6:12||Profile|
El Paso, Texas
OK guys, since this debate is really over calvinistic theology vs. the opposing theology, I have taken the liberty of doing quite a bit of research on the issue.
What I have found is an apologetic study of the five points of calvinism, and also an apologetic study of the book of Romans.
[b]I encourage both sides to read the entire thing. If you believe in calvinism or the opposing theology, and are not willing to read the whole thing, then how dare you call yourself someone who seeks after the truth.[/b]
It is very user friendly, and easy to understand, it deals specifically with a book by Piper, attempting to defend calvinism. Here is the link. But I doubt if any of you have the wherewithall to go and actually read it.
[url=http://www.inplainsite.org/html/calvinism_five_points.html]The Five Points Of Calvinism Considered[/url]
| 2007/3/7 9:35||Profile|