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HomeFree89
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Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 What Scriptures Do Eternal Security People Use?

I'm not trying to start a huge descussion on eternal security, but what verses do they use to back their doctrine? I worked with a guy who believed that way, but he couldn't back it up from the Bible. He just said that he was sure it's in the Bible and then he never got back to me with the verses.

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/2/2 19:31Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re: What Scriptures Do Eternal Security People Use?

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Would Christ die for us and love us so much that we being born again could not loose what He purchased with His own Death and Blood.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is the fulfillment of the Word of God, that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. With Christ born again in us by Incorruptable Seed, that is the Seed of our Father, that is Jesus Christ Himself who is not our life. Being birthed by God's Seed, we cannot be aborted, we are already born.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Neither Law or no Law can give us anything, but we are new creatures in Christ Jesus, that is not under our control, it by the Grace of God through the Faith of God, that we are a new creature, A Christ Person, Christian.

Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

We are already in heavenly places in Christ Jesus where He is seated on the right hand of God the Father and we are with Him, in Spirit and learning this in Soul/Mind, by the Holy Spirit because we Now have the mind of Christ.

Again How can a born again Child of God, a son, loose so great a salvation? Impossible. So we should seek the things that have been given us and not listen the lie of Satan that if we are not our own gods and our own works that save us, if we don't measure up, we will loose our salvation and God is not true to Himself. The great lie of Satan still being used against God's chosen people that are son's being prepared for His House.

Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

No one can loose Christ, when He is the life of all that we are and the gift giver of salvation and all that accompanies so great a salvation, especially The Holy Spirit that is not in us forever, He won't leave either, and we also have God Himself in us.

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Salvation of God is either of Himself and His Son by the Holy Spirit, which is heavenly salvation or who ever believes the lie that salvation is of self, then those that believe that they can loose their own salvation are of their father the devil.

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

We were in Christ before the foundation of the world and we are now because of Grace through Faith are son's of God.

Ephesians 1:4-9 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Our salvation is Gods pleasure not ours. He has made Christ everything that is necessary to salvation and we cannot loose something that is not ours in the first place.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In Christ and cannot get out: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/2/3 2:30Profile
wildhorse86
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Joined: 2005/5/20
Posts: 54


 Re:

Tell me also...
Why would God give us the gift of salvation, if he was going to take it away?

 2007/2/3 8:03Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

He wouldn’t. The Bible tells us this. People that do not believe in ES do not think that God takes it back. They believe they have the option, choice, and free will to leave it, neglect it if you will, to the point that they become lost. It is not something someone does on propose. Lots and lots of scriptures for this side as well.

God Bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/2/3 9:03Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Hi Phillip,

What about these verses from Hebrews?

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

In Christ, Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/2/3 9:28Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Heb 6: is another proof that man cannot loose God's salvation given by Him, authored by Him and prepared His own sacrifice, that those who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, which is revealed by God Only, they are saved to the utmost.

Heb 6 is always the first place those that don't believe that their salvation is eternal and fixed in Christ Jesus. They take it out of context and use only 4-6 to prove eternal security false. Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ’s sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be “impossible” for them to be re-redeemed. The impossible is not for renewing but for assurance that one cannot loose their salvation.

If you surround :4-6 with :1-3 and finish it with :7 you will see that eternal salvation is of God and not possible for man to sin a sin unto death. "Don't pray for it". Verse seven: Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: The saved are the son's of God planted in good ground and the rain falling bring forth meet, fruit, for them by whom it is dressed. Who is the Vine Dresser? Of Course it is God. What is the blessing from God, the only true blessing that is for all those that believe, believing by the Holy Spirit? The only true blessing from God is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". The one single thing that God has done that we should be praising Him every day and every moment is That Jesus Christ Has been Born Again in the believer and we now have a new life that is full of the blessing of the rain that fall on us to bring forth herbs (grazing land) meet (appropriate and fit) for the Vine Dresser.

The second part in verse :8 is for the unsaved, "nigh", (near at hand) are those that still have a chance to believe or they will go to damnation. They are near at hand to cursing and eternal damnation.

Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Then Paul puts us back into verse :7; Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Notice, "accompany salvation", which takes the believing saint, a son of God into the complete assurance of eternal salvation: Hebrews 6:12-13 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, He sware by Himself. If God sware by Himself who can question His eternal salvation.

Hebrews 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Hebrews 6:18-20 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

What are the two immutable things? The sure reference is to the promise and the oath of God, each of which is firm ground of the assurance of salvation, and in each of which it would be impossible for God to lie. What is the strong consultation of our souls after the immutability of God not able to lie by the promise and the oath: Hebrews 6:19-20 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. This is absolute conformation the Col 1:27 Is true and complete in our salvation, surrounded by what Christ in a person will do; He will make all men perfect that believe the He is the Son of God.
Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Since it is not our life we live any more, we could not possibly loose that which God has promised. Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (And I could loose my salvation which is not mine to begin with, but Gods.) Author's addition

In Christ seeking the things which are above.
Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.::: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/2/3 22:25Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Also these verses
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 [b]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/b]


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patrick heaviside

 2007/2/3 22:51Profile
HomeFree89
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Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

wildhorse86 wrote:
Tell me also...
Why would God give us the gift of salvation, if he was going to take it away?




He wouldn't take it away, but we can choose to leave His family.

Why would God create humans when He knew that Adam and Eve would sin?

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/2/8 19:39Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Heres some verses for you :)

1 John 3:6 "Whoever (unrepentantly bathes in) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

John 3:16 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life;"

John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

1 John 5:13 "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[a] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

John 6:39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."

John 10:28-29 "28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."

Eph 1:13, 14 "having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

1 Peter 1:4, 5 "4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Phil 1:6 "6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 6:14 "14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

Phil 2:13 "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

1 John 2:19 "19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us."

Romans 8:38-39 "38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God





Philippians 1:6
"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" IT IS CHRIST WHO BEGAN.

Phil 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." IT IS GOD WHO WORKS.


1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." All who have ever fallen away(permanently) were never saved in the first place.


******If you are TRULY saved(justified) you will continue being saved(sanctified) and will finally be saved(glorified).

_______________________________________________
1 John Cpts 2 & 3

"3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."


"4 Whoever commits(pratices) sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
________________________________________________

God hates sin and somebody who loves sin consequently hates God and is lost. If you are saved you will strive to be holy.

1 Peter 1:16
"because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy.""

Hebrews 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

A real conversion is when somebody REPENTS of all thier sin (by the power of God). Turns away from all of it and experiences a radicaly changed life in love for God. If they don't perservere they were not saints. If somebody lives in and practices sin, they are lost.

Its not that by your works you are saved but if you are saved you have works! Otherwise you have a dead faith!

James 2:20
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

James 2:26
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


"Once saved always saved" This phrase is devastating to people who twist things to thier own destruction. The question really is...

2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified."

2 Peter 1:10
"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble"

WERE YOU SAVED? DID YOU REALLY CHANGE? ARE YOU LIVING IN SIN? DO YOU LIVE A LIFESTYLE OF INDULGENCE IN SIN WITHOUT CHANGE OR REMORSE OR TRANSFORMATION? Are God's command's a burden? HAVE YOU BEEN SAVED?????

Believe, have faith in Christ's Righteousness, trust Christ's sacrifice, be "Born Again" (or regenerated) Be converted! Salvation is by Grace, through faith, in Christ Alone. Faith = Provided by God. Rom 12:3; Heb 12:2

Leading to Sanctification:
follow Christ, obey God, love God, know God, seek God, fear God all the days of your life. Do all these things with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. (Provided by God)
________________________________________________
John 10:29
Romans 8:38-39
Ephesians 1:13-14


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Kristy

 2007/2/10 18:22Profile
Meriwether
Member



Joined: 2006/8/13
Posts: 33


 Re: What Scriptures Do Eternal Security People Use?

Hi,

I just wanted to add a few more:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I recently read a book by R.C. Sproul in which he comments on the "ernest" of the Holy Spirit. He says that if we could default on our salvation, then God would lose us and the earnest, the Holy Spirit, a third of the Trinity. In other words, God would have to cease to be God. Of course, this is an impossiblilty.


 2007/2/10 23:06Profile





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