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tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 A sin too big to ignore.

Is it okay to ignore certain sins? How about in our ministers, pastors, and teachers?

I ask this because it seems like we are quick to lynch for pornography, but gluttony is safe. Is gluttony a sin? Is it okay to be under the teaching and preaching of a glutton?

Proverbs 23:2 (KJV)
And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, "Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags." Proverbs 28:7 declares, "He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father."

We sure do preach the don’t drink and smoke sermons, but it seems to me that gluttony is getting a pass; especially in America.

I read that obesity now leads to more health problems in America than smoking and drinking combined.

Should we preach and teach on this subject, or just let God have this one?

Any thoughts on the subject?

God bless

TJ


_________________
TJ

 2007/1/30 23:18Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re: A sin too big to ignore.

I think it's important to honour your body.
It's also important to have your body under subjection to the Spirit through discipline and morification. This is a touchy subject friend.
We live in a society where many drive everywhere and only walk when they really have to. I know many, many people that hate to go for walks. I say, "Hey, let's go for a walk." They look at me like I got three heads, unless they have a dog and the pooch needs some exercise.
The nutrition levels in our foods that we eat here in North America are pathetic and full of empty calories. To eat healthy you basically have to take home a pretty good income. Organically grown foods cost quite a bit.
But really, it's about making healthy choices isn't it... and then sticking to them.
The body is an amazing vessel. Once it starts controlling you, look out!
Everyday is a fresh oppurtunity given by God. All we can do is our part.
richie


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Richie

 2007/1/31 0:19Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re: A sin too big to ignore.

Gluttony is a sin, but you can't preach against a sin you are guilty of.

Contrary to popular belief, it is not expensive to eat healthy, it's not necessary to eat organic.

It's not expensive, because when you ditch the junk food, and start to eat real food, you are just swapping where you spend the money.

Besides, real food, because of it's nutrition, fills up better, without the excess fat, and make you feel physically better.

I read about a pastor who had colon cancer, who refused the medical route and went the nutritional route.

30 years later he is still alive and helping others to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

Basically, I've read that 63% of Americans are obese. Not so far behind here in England.

I guess the affluence in America is affecting the church. Hence the apathy. Too well fed to be concerned about anyone else.

You don't see alot of fat Muslims do you? There are some, but compare that to western Christian and there is no contest.

Still, we have to ask ourselves, will God send someone to hell for being a glutton? Surely not.

Well, what it says in the word, it says.

God bless.

 2007/1/31 5:55Profile









 Re: A sin too big to ignore.

TJ,
As Enid said, gluttony is a sin, but I cannot comment on what God will use as a measuring stick to determine how many pounds is too much, but I am experiencing something that may shed some 'fat' on the issue.

I attend morning church here in South Korea. My pastor is...fat. He has a round face and an even rounder stomach. Is he going to hell? I doubt it, however, I do feel that it affects his ministry.

Fat people know when they are fat and they also know of ways to mask or hide things that would reveal more of their 'fatness'. This pastor speaks holding a microphone and almost each sentence he speaks, his arm moves, which forces him to adjust his suit jacket, so that it is perfectly aligned, so to not reveal his body more than it already is.

Whether he knowingly does this or it is his subconscience doing it, it does distract him and at least me. Also, when he breaths in through the mic, you can hear a 'fat man's' breath. A couple months ago, our church did a fast together. He fasted for 21 days, on a juice diet, and talked about it almost each and everyday. In my mind, I was thinking, "couldn't you have done the whole 40?!"

This is not to belittle fat people. Some people have problems and issues, which leads them to gain weight, or eat to gain weight. I used to drink, smoke, and do drugs, so I understand crutches. My concern is what TJ brought up... fat pastors and preachers.

I am in Korea, where I have never eaten so healthy in my entire live. I also agree with Enid, in that healthy food is not expensive at all. Everyday, I eat rice and some sort of side dish (spiced garlic (I'm in love and it's so cheap...but I do smell pretty bad), spiced dried fish, kimchi (spiced cabbage), and many others), and maybe a sweet or regular potato, or eggs. We eat a lot of greens like lettuce. Hmmhmm...there are so many good foods, and that does not even include the meat.

So, healthy food is not expensive, except for meat, but that is not necessary everyday, or even more than a couple times a week. We usually finish our meal with fruit. I have never eaten so much fruit in my life (apples, tangerines, pears, grapes, bananas, perssimmons, and kiwi).


When I lived in Canada, my problem was not that I could not eat the same food, it was that I was too lazy to buy it or make my own. I have learned how easy and actually fun it is to have a sit down meal, with family and friends, rather than a burger or pizza.

Korean people are generally healthy and they are quick to belittle one another on such issues as obesity (they are very hard on others), so I do not know why my pastor is any different. Yesterday, he was obviously suffering from a cold and then he mentioned a sore throught.

He is a good man, but he is fat. I find it very difficult to look at him as a pastor who is supposed to be teaching me how to live a good life. I know I am to learn my lessons from the word, prayer and with a fellowship with Jesus, but pastors should represent the church the best way possible.

It is hard to take a man seriously who talks about fasting, when it looks as though he has never missed a meal in his life. There is a thread on here about proper attire in the church. Pastors, especially, have the responsibility to set an example for the rest of the people.

This pastor has four children, the youngest, a boy, is as fat as him. Why? Because dad is.

Anyway, I love everyone, I would just like to see people loving themself a little more. I love to exercise, but I also know if I do not, I will be affected in a way which will effect all other areas of my life. If you don't use it, you will lose it.

God Bless and be healthy...
BrianMira

 2007/1/31 7:10
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: to enid

Quote:

enid wrote:
Gluttony is a sin, but you can't preach against a sin you are guilty of.



Are you saying that a preacher could be living in sin (adultery), and be okay to preach on commandments he is not violating?


Quote:

Still, we have to ask ourselves, will God send someone to hell for being a glutton? Surely not.

Well, what it says in the word, it says.

God bless.



Are you saying God will not cast sinners into hell?


God bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/1/31 7:45Profile
Vader
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 16


 Re:

I have an uncle that told me, 'things are not always what they appear to be on the outside.' Sin is sin, whether it is overdrinking or over eating. I had the opportunity when I was younger to serve in Argentina. The culture is very diverse in that there were germans, italians, and english cultures represented. In each church they served beer, wine and tea. Each church culture taught against the evils of beer, wine and tea, respectively. It was very interesting to view it from the outside looking in. I believe in all situations, common sense used here, everything not done in faith is sin as well as moderation, romans 14

In essentials there is unity in non-essentials there is liberty.

As I have matured in the Lord things are not quite as serious and I am on a diet. We used to sing a song, from glory to glory He changes me and the Living Word gives fresh revelation as we seek after Him. :-D

 2007/1/31 8:03Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Frankly tj, I don't think you understood anything I said.

I'm asking, how can a pastor preach against gluttony when he is a glutton, and everyone knows it. Unless he intends to change and challenge the people to do so.

And from what I have read in scripture, it states gluttony as a sin, which it is.

You will go to hell for gluttony. If not, then it's the only sin spoken of in the Bible where you won't go to hell.

Another thing is, this mentality of gluttons being fat. I know thin gluttons.

Someone might be fat and still be able to fast.

On the other hand, someone might be thin, and have their stomach for a master, and can't fast for one day.

I looked up the word glutton in the dictionary and it said ' an excessively, greedy eater', it said nothing about size.

God bless.

 2007/1/31 9:21Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: enid

Quote:

enid wrote:
Frankly tj, I don't think you understood anything I said.



And I am very Glad. That is why I asked the questions I did. I was just replying to what you posted.
And you are right about the fact that a glutton is not always fat. That's why I didn't say it.

God bless

TJ


_________________
TJ

 2007/1/31 9:47Profile









 Re:

There are some good comments on here, some that I need to pray about.

Two questions here would be if anyone here is completely sanctified and lives in sinless perfection? Is all gluttony a willful sin or can people be gluttons and not yet realize how worng it is because of the American culture we were raised in?

Very challenging and I appreciate the tone is one of encouragement and truth rather then puffing up and spiritual pride with this thread. A rare jewel among the internet message forums these days.

Thanks for the wisdom guys, especially that a glutton isnt always "fat", and someone who is "fat" isnt always a practicing glutton.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/1/31 10:25









 Re:

Quote:
You will go to hell for gluttony. If not, then it's the only sin spoken of in the Bible where you won't go to hell



People who profess Christ will go to hell for deliberate/willful sin, (HEB 10, 1 John 3) please see my last post.

Thanks again!

 2007/1/31 10:27





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