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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Zac Poonen visiting the USA in February and March!

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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Who knows, we're Baptists and so are KP, Paul and Brother Andrew =P



Hey brother, Poonen speaks in tongues. Would he still be allowed to teach in your church? :-P


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/1/31 14:15Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

If by tongues you mean that he can speak in other Indian dialects -yes!

Actually my church had a joint service with our Korean department this last week and the Korean pastor gave a charge to the congregation in English, then quipped, 'and now I'm going to give the same charge in tongues.' Then promptly gave the same charge to the Korean speaking members.

You know, I've never spoken in tongues, and never heard someone who was genuinely born again speak in tongues in person. That is not to say that I believe that it is a lost gift, I am uncomfortable with it though.

I have known a couple of people claim to speak in tongues who were living sinning godless lives -so that may shade my opinion on the matter towards the negative.

You know, last year I read the book 'The Cross and the Switchblade.' The book had my entire attention until about the 22nd chapter or so (I think) when there was a chapter entirely devoted to speaking in tongues, and I was just floored by it.

I think I agree closest with Leonard Ravenhill, who said that tongues should be considered a sign of the blessing of the Holy Spirit, but not a requirement.

Honestly, if I could have a choice of any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, i'd put purity, wisdom, prophesy, teaching all before tongues!

I've known so many people who claim to speak in tongues and have none of these!

If I met together with Zac Poonen and he wanted to pray for me in tongues I wouldn't be against it, he has evidences in his life of the work of the Holy Spirit... and if he did speak in tongues I wouldn't be able to tell the difference than if he had wanted to pray over me in some Indian dialect.

The leadership of my church is Korean, my pastor prays during prayer meeting aloud in Korean... but the fact of the matter is it's not for spiritual self-gratification, which is the warning that Paul gives to those in the early church about speaking in tongues. I think that warning is applicable today too.

Before someone start barking like a dog, or speaking in tongues, show me love, purity, wisdom, joy, a heart sold out for Jesus. I really don't want any part of their theatrics!


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Ian Smith

 2007/1/31 14:51Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Great post, Ian. I agree!

I forget what message it is when Poonen talks about when he was baptized in the Holy Spirit how he spoke in "other" tongues. I believe he was talking about his prayer language. I guess I should have worded it that he [i]prays[/i] in tongues. I believe there's a difference between the ejaculatory tongues in Cornelius' house and the public tongue "gift" spoken of in I Cor. 14 that requires interpretation.

Yes, I've read "Cross and the Switchblade", and I remember the part where Wilkerson explains the Spirit baptism and tongues. I was kind of shocked - and I am Pentecostal! I thought it was pretty bold to dedicate as many pages as he did to something as controversial and stumbling-blockish as Holy Ghost Baptism and tongues. I actually commended him for it.

Anyway, I was just trying to be a bit jocular here - trying to get a rise from you since you've admitted to being a part of a Baptist fellowship!

I'm with you on Ravenhill. God can keep the gifts out of my life if I don't have fruit. I'd rather be humble and holy and lowly than raise the dead and cleanse lepers - and again, this is coming from a Pentecostal believer. I shudder at the thought of striking a rock in disobedience and God still bringing the water forth.

If you know what I mean. ;-)

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/1/31 15:20Profile
Santana
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 286


 Re:

Quote:
Brother Poonen, for me, is right up there with the great preacher triad of Keith Daniel/Art Katz/Zac Poonen. I will travel long distances to hear any one of these collosal men of God.




Maybe we'll see at least one of these speakers in the future at the first annual SermonIndex.com conference. 8-)


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Leonardo Santana

 2007/1/31 15:55Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Thanks for the response Paul.

I knew you were trying to get a rise out of a Baptist but I really didn't know what your true feelings were, so I actually even went back and edited the post and put in 'someone' instead of 'you.'

I really don't want to argue on the forum, so I'd rather speak constructively. (Unless the topic is Islam, then I'm right and you're wrong... j/k).

I have to admit, until recently I've been pretty much tunnel vision as far as denominations go. My background in Childhood is Catholicism. I first heard the Gospel at an Evangelical Free church in middle school. In college I came to the Lord in a Southern Baptist Church.

Like Paul Washer said in his famous sermon (you know the one if you've heard it), I'm proud to be a Southern Baptist, because for the most part we get thing's right before others do -although no denomination is perfect.

I think Southern Baptists have pretty strong footing in theology, praxis and missions. We're conservative, we're mission minded, and our members live lives that reflect this daily.

One thing that I never learned too much about as a Baptist was the gifts of the Spirit, I think the denomination plays this down because it is dangerous territory. Southern Baptists tend to stress personal holiness and obedience over speaking in tongues and prophesy. Sometimes this leads to dead religiosity -however in my church it leads to humble discipleship.

I have no doubt that there are some Baptists who have a genuine gift of tongues, but because of the emphasis on modesty and humility it probably won't be tolerated in a worship services because it is and often has been a sournce of pride and boasting.

Baptists like Brother Andrew, KP Yohannan and Paul Washer aren't afraid to reach out and grasp the hands of a Pentacostal or Charismatic, as long as those believers are well grounded in humility, modesty and the foundational virtues of a servant of the Lord.

For example, Gospel For Asia is an interdenominational organization, but KP Yohannan is an ordained Baptist minister. KP and Zac Poonen are on good terms, Zac Poonen has even taught at GFA meetings.

Paul Washer talks lovingly about his friendship with Leonard Ravenhill... even getting past the fact that Ravenhill wasn't always the most kind in his speech towards Baptists =)

Brother Andrew isn't even afraid to meet with the members of Hamas or Hezbollah, he's not going to avoid meeting with some Pentecostals, Nazarenes or Charismatics.

What I don't like is when Pentecostals say that if I don't speak in tongues, then I'm not born again -I'm not the one putting up barriers here =)

Anyways, God Bless!


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Ian Smith

 2007/1/31 17:47Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Thank you for this much gracious discussion, brother. At the risk of diverting this Zac Poonen thread to yet another rabbit trail on tongues, let me just say that the people who say you must speak in tongues to be born again are known as UPC (United Pentecostal Church) and they are considered heretical. I totally reject their stance on tongues for salvation, as well as their oneness theology. My wife grew up in the UPC, where they didn't allow their women to cut their hair or wear pants. I praise God she was able to escape this, and now she will tell you herself how dangerous they are. We attend an AG (Assemblies of God) Pentecostal church, are trinitarians, and I have much fellowship with my Baptist brethren. I used to street preach with a Baptist youth pastor, we are still wonderful friends, I love him in the Lord. We have seen God move on the streets, and we see firsthand how His glory transcends man's denomination.

Like brother Zac, we are after humility and holiness, conforming to the image of Jesus Christ in the inward parts. I pray I can go see Poonen when he's in Colorado. Maybe you and I can meet up! This would be wonderful! I've already met some blessed saints from SI when I saw Keith Daniel last year.

Much love in our Lord,

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/1/31 19:09Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36693
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
February 17 - 5.30 pm service at ALCF, Mountain View, CA (www.alcf.net)
February 18 - 8.30 am and 11 am services at ALCF, Mountain View, CA

March 2 to 4 - Loveland, CO - Contact: Phil Lapp, Phone: 970-567-3032; Email: pklapp@juno.com
March 7 to 11 - Pennsylvania - Contact: Dan Shetler (McAlisterville, PA 17049) Phone: 717-463-3338; E-Mail: dan@shetlerinc.com


Is anyone else going to be able to go and hear Zac Poonen when he comes this February and March?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/2/5 11:24Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

I would love to go, but short notice and short on capital... if I could get 2 or three people from Seattle to go and split the gas money I guess I'd go!


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Ian Smith

 2007/2/5 12:13Profile
lovejt
Member



Joined: 2005/11/5
Posts: 121


 Re:

I'm goin. I've seen him there for years. I really look forward to the times he comes around. I used to live in that area and am
about 1 1/2 hours away now.


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james

 2007/2/5 12:41Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

He comes yearly? Do you know what the occasion is?


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Ian Smith

 2007/2/5 12:58Profile





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