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John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

What an interesting firestorm the subject of money brews! The following is just my own musing on the subject. I do not mean to take a doctrinal stand.

Much of this discussion seems to focus on the law. Is tithing a law that we are under?

The vast majority of OT law has to do with sacrifice for sin. Are we under any of these laws? God forbid.

There are, however, other commandments (only 10?) that have nothing to do with sacrifice, but rather have to do with how we relate to our fellow man. If I break one of the ten commandments, may I excuse myself because I am not under the law? These laws are ones we are, in a sense, still "under". To break them is to sin. To break them is to countermand the new law that we are under which is to love God with all our heart..., and to love our neighbor as ourselves.

So the question is, where does tithing fit in? In one sense, the OT laws not related to sacrifice are a baseline. A minimum standard if you will. In mathematics we are all familiar with positives and negatives. Zero representing the line of division. To sin is to cross the line into negative. To not sin is to remain at zero. The law of love demands that we live our lives not only without sin, but rather on the positive side. To love is to give; of our time, our ear, our compassion, our sacrifice of intercession etc. It also demands that we share our resources.

So the question I have is, which type of law does tithing fall in? Is it not fair to view ten percent as a biblical baseline for our monetary giving?

On a seperate note. We must be able to trust our leadership with the finances of the church. hopefully these are handled prayerfully. How in the world could I continue to attend a local body if I could not trust the leadership?

In closing, let me relate two testimonies. Years ago, I went to a church that had consistent and abundant provision. One month that provision inexplicably dried up. As the pastor was agonizing in prayer over this (imagine how he must have felt) he heard the Holy Spirit whisper one word. "Guatemala". This church had for years been faithfully giving to an orphanage/outreach ministry in that country. Unfortuneately, they had recently changed secretaries, and the gift was never sent. The pastor raced into the secretaries office and asked what the balance was in their checking and told her to send it all immediately. As you can guess, the following Sunday the provision "spigot" was back on in full.

A similar thing happened at my current church. The pastor shared in a small group setting that giving was down for several weeks and asked for prayer (he did not condemn the congregation from the pulpit). Afterward, I shared the above story with him. Later he shared with the congregation that he had chosen to stop supporting a ministry he had been giving to for years. He sent this gift along and once again, the following Sunday the giving was back to "normal".

In His love, Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/2/3 12:32Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: More tithing

Quite a bit more to be considered for the willing. A number of helpful links within these discussions as well. Some links from the forum, the older towards the more recent;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1788&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Tithing is not a Old Testament Law ![/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=4398&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]tithing[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=6984&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]"enforced" tithing?[/url][url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=9651&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]How about tithing nowadays?[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/2/3 13:36Profile
Jimbabwean
Member



Joined: 2007/1/29
Posts: 17
USA

 Re:

One wonders whether the tithing debate will ever end. I guess we'll have to wait for heaven to find out whether we have to tithe there too?

Perhaps Upton Sinclair has a point when he said:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

 2007/2/4 14:22Profile









 Re:

The Tithing question will end with my Post. Your in either two camps.

1)First Camp: If you HAVE to tithe, your under some sort of law that you or your church has made you to sit under and have been convinced that this is pleasing to God.

2)Second Camp: If you WANT to tithe, than God Bless You, you are under grace, freely have you received, Cheerfully you give. You do this by Faith, because you want to.

For this is the law of liberty.

If God is telling you to tithe, I question what god is speaking to you.


 2007/2/4 16:35
Jimbabwean
Member



Joined: 2007/1/29
Posts: 17
USA

 Re:

Amen!

 2007/2/4 16:39Profile
Jimbabwean
Member



Joined: 2007/1/29
Posts: 17
USA

 Re:

Quote:
You people do not sound like cheerful givers.
It's sad that Christians can be so mean.
I might be wrong, but it seems as though you begrudge giving even 10%. Why is this?



I don't tithe anymore, but I am a generous giver. I gave a car that I needed away to a poor single mom who was living in a trailer that had a leaking roof.

So, your perception of what is mean is not correct.

I think that it is mean to demand a tithe from poor people like the lady I just quoted, when she cannot afford it. The Bible actually said that the poor were supposed to receive some of the tithe, not be tithed. It is the tithing message that is mean. Rich people don't appreciate this fact.

Worse still are those who preach that you get cursed for not tithing. No wonder some people leave the church! They are told that they are poor, because they don't tithe, and they are told that they don't love God because they don't tithe.

Where is the compassion in tithing?!

 2007/2/4 17:27Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hello Compliments...

Quote:
The Tithing question will end with my Post. Your in either two camps.

1)First Camp: If you HAVE to tithe, your under some sort of law that you or your church has made you to sit under and have been convinced that this is pleasing to God.

2)Second Camp: If you WANT to tithe, than God Bless You, you are under grace, freely have you received, Cheerfully you give. You do this by Faith, because you want to.

For this is the law of liberty.

We should be careful about trying to explain anything (pertaining to debated doctrine) by merely creating two possible categories in which all individuals MUST belong. I know a great deal of people who believe in the concept of tithing -- myself included -- and do not feel at all "bound" by the Law of Moses. The concept of tithing predates the Law of Moses by at least 400 years (when Abraham first gave a tithe to Melchizedek). It existed at the time of Christ, as our Lord verbally embraced the concept (yes, before the cross). The extent of where it exists today is speculative at best.

As someone who believes in tithing, do I feel secure enough to boldly speak for God and say that giving God at least a tenth is a doctrinal necessity? Of course not. I might be wrong on this issue. In fact, there are many things that are ultimately unclear in the Word of God -- and tithing seems to be one of them. You can assume all that you want, but there are some things that are best left to graceful and honest interpretation. As such...
Quote:
If God is telling you to tithe, I question what god is speaking to you.

...does not seem like a very wise thing to say. Then again, it doesn't matter what you "question" in order to make it so. However, a judgmental attitude about unclear doctrinal beliefs really has no place in the Body of Christ. Too often, we are willing to "question" the "spiritual hearing" or "discernment" of someone based upon our own doctrinal persuasions. It is fine and dandy for someone to "question" the Scriptual basis upon which someone's beliefs are formed -- but it is hasty to question "what god" they are listening to in subjects that are not completely clear from His Word.

The bottom line is that we should all follow the Lord's commands to the best of our comprehension through study of His Word and prayer. All such doctrinal beliefs should be carried out with an open, humble and honest heart. Tithe-embracers should never pass judgment upon those who do not believe in the concept, nor should non-tithers pass judgment upon those who reject the concept. Such attitudes of "doctrinal superiority" (or supposed better "hearing" of the Word) concerning issues that are either not 100% completely clear really seem to divide the Body of Christ. There are some things that are completely without room for debate (Hebrews 6:1-3). There is room for grace and meekness concerning the rest.

Just a simple word to the wise.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/2/4 22:28Profile
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

Thanks Chris, for such a thoughtful post.

In His Love,

Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/2/4 23:43Profile





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