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Discussion Forum : General Topics : 3 and one half years ago!!!

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PJ
Member



Joined: 2003/7/29
Posts: 76


 3 and one half years ago!!!

Dear Readers,

It’s been almost exactly three and one half years since I first logged in and registered on this sight. I can still remember my excitement as I discovered this sight for the first time. It was at a time of deep spiritual hunger in my life, a time in which I was desperate for sermons and companionship that would move me further in my walk with God. When I discovered all of the sermons available by Leonard Ravenhill, I felt as if I had struck Gold.

Though I was first overjoyed with the audio and video sermons available, I soon found something also that I valued just as much. I found fellowship. While I had had several seasons of previous spiritual fervor in my life, they had always been extremely lonely times. No matter how hard I would search during these times, it seemed I could never find anyone who shared the same zeal that I would be experiencing. For this reason the discovery of this sight brought even greater joy. It seemed to me that for the first time I had found others who were also serious about the things of God. For the first time I found others who did not ignore the scriptures that most other people did. For the first time in my life I had fellowship. For the first time in my life, I belonged to something. For the first time I found a place in which I could share the things burning in my heart without being looked upon as over zealous. What a joy it was to read “amens” to what I was saying instead of being looked upon as strange.

My whole life I had been an out of place nobody. I remember looking upon others who had tight circles of friends with envy. Oh how I always wanted a tight group of people with whom I could identify. Oh how I wanted to belong to something. With that said, I hope you can see why the discovery of this sight brought such joy to me.

The early days after my discovery of this sight was a very hopeful time in my life. Since my idea of “Christian” history was formed from reading books, I thought that the goal of this spiritual fervor was to see it spread to others and ignite a reformation and revival within the institutionalized “church”. As my own spiritual fervor continued to grow, and as I started meeting others who seemed to have the same fervor I began to think that things must be getting ready to fall in place for a great move of God, a move of God in which I would hopefully get to play a part. At the risk of sounding incredibly silly, I’ll reveal that I used to have the spiritual fantasy that God would somehow arrange for many of us on this sight to get together for a time of prayer. I imagined that from this gathering a movement would begin which would shake the world. As I said, it was a very exciting and hope filled time in my life.

The reason I share all of this is to let those who are familiar with where I’m at today know that I did not come hear carelessly. I want you to know that I valued having fellowship. I valued the men who’s book’s I loved to read. I valued my hope of revival in the institutionalized “church”. I would not have left any of those things behind carelessly. If you have read my most recent post, then you know that I am far removed from the institutionalized “church”. You also know that I no longer have any regard for the same men I once used to hold dear. You also know that I can’t any longer hope for revival in the institutionalized “church” because I do not believe that it is God’s institution in the first place. As I traveled down this road that has brought me here, it was only natural that I drift away from those who do not share these beliefs. It was only natural that I would lose the fellowship that I once held dear. I write all of this to let you now that I would not forsake such things unless I felt that it was in exchange for something better. I would only forsake such things if I was firmly convinced that I was walking in truth. I did not reach any of my conclusions about the institutionalized “church” overnight. Nor did I invent my conclusions for the sake of convenience. Instead, I firmly believe that my beliefs were formed as God taught me “line upon line, and precept upon precept”. As I gave God and his word my unwavering devotion, he began to teach me things that I never would have dreamed up on my own. No, this journey was not made carelessly, but instead, each step was taken with great caution as I continually examined myself in light of God’s word and remained aware that I would stand before him and give account for my life.

When I come to the end of my life, it may be proved that I have simply gone crazy. However, if that is the case, I will at least have the eternal confidence that I was sincerely crazy. I can not change courses at this point in my life, for I am absolutely convinced that I am on the right course. To forsake the road I’m on simply because others think it is the wrong road would be absolutely foolish, for to do so would be to go against what I sincerely believe is right. If I perish eternally because I was crazy, I will at least know in my suffering that I stayed true to what I believe to be truth. On the other hand, if I was to forsake what I believed to be truth to please others and then perish as a result, I would have to spend eternity knowing that I deserved my penalty for blatantly rejecting what I believed to be truth. I would have to spend eternity knowing that I was a complete fool. If I perish because I’m crazy, I will know that I could do nothing to change the results, but if I perish because I was a fool, I will live forever knowing my foolishness was the reason for my fate. That is a knowledge I can not eternally bear. So unless God divinely intervenes and shows me the error of my way, I am certain to stay on this road because I firmly believe that it is the road he has put me on.

Last night I went to the search engine on this sight and typed in “PJ”. I was neat to see that many of the post I made three years ago can still be read. It was interesting to go back and read my post in chronological order. By doing so I was able to recall the different things I was going through as I wrote each post. As I look back to that exciting time in my life, I am very thankful that I did not know what changes would take place in my life in the following years. For this knowledge would have been to much to bear and would have possibly sent me running the other way.
Here is a little of what has happened in my journey of the course of the past three and one half years. In October of 2003, a time in which I was still actively posting on this sight, I came to a important crossroad in my life in which I decided take a certain season in which I would forsake all books and sermons and draw all my learning for scripture alone. My pledge was not only to read it but also to be obedient to what God would ask of me, regardless of what the cost. This decision would be the catalyst that would set in motion many life changing events. The first thing that would come from this decision was a new understanding of salvation. For the first time in my life I experienced true salvation and I found out that it was much different and much more wonderful than anything I had ever been taught. In light of this new experience, I had to face a uncomfortable fact that I had in no way been saved prior to this time in my life.

The next thing to come was my resignation from my job. I was a well paid, full time “children’s pastor”. Since so much of what I was discovering in God’s word ran opposed to what this “church” was teaching, I could not continue to be both obedient to the truth and a staff member at the same time. I resigned with no other job lined out. It was some what scary, and yet I sincerely believed it would all work out. My belief was correct. I did not stay unemployed long, just long enough to get a good rest from the previous hard years as a staff pastor.

The next major change to come would be regarding "church" attendance. God soon revealed in his word that the only reason I continued to attend “church” was because of the social pressure to do so. He showed me that I was only doing it as a work to avoid persecution from those who would think less of us for not attending. With this revelation, we ceased attending altogether. Soon after this we would also quit paying tithes for the same reason.

After this I began an intense season of learning. This season of learning would cause me to eventually reject many “church” doctrines I had grown up believing. I was amazed at how much I had been willing to believe simply because others said it was so. This season of learning also brought me to a place in which I would forsake my love for many of the authors I had once held dear as it seemed that they too had somehow missed the truth of scripture. This was not an easy thing to do. I loved many of these men dearly. It seemed that they had even played a role in bringing to the joyful place I was now living. As I began to forsake their teachings, I drew criticism as being foolish to not trust in the wisdom of my elders. Because of this criticism I would constantly examine myself to make sure that these conclusions were base upon devotion to God and his word and that they were not just foolish choices based upon self righteous pride.

While this process of learning was beginning separate me from everything I used to hold dear, there was still much separation to come. Eventually this process of learning would lead me to a conclusion that the institutionalized “church” was without any doubt the “Great Whore of Babylon” that was under that control of the “beast”. I came to understand that God aloud this institution to exist for the purpose of testing his sincere believers. I came to understand that his sincere believers would recognize what the institution truly was while the faithless would forever be deceived by it. This revelation would prompt me to write a letter explaining this belief to many family members and friends. I felt I had to warn people of their blindness and of the error of their ways.

After sending out this letter, I knew that I has to act upon something that God had been impressing in my heart as well as in his word. God had began to show me that it was not good to continue fellowship with those who were not of the same faith as myself. He burned into my heart that I had to break off fellowship with both my family and my wives family. This was not an easy thing to do. Though are hearts were often grieved when around them, and even thought we were more than willing to end this fellowship, we also knew that this decision would not be received well. Ultimately we chose to be obedient to this command in scripture. We wrote a letter to our families announcing that we would no longer reamain in constant contact, and that we would not be coming home for family gatherings. And just as we suspected, this was not received well at all. The season after this announcement was the hardest season of all. This season was a time of great strife. The announcement drew many attacks as our parents and brothers claimed that we were doing them wrong. I was told that a spirit of Satan had entered into me. I was told that I was part of a cult. This hard season is still not over.

After the decision to end fellowship with our families, we felt it necessary to sell the house we had owned for the previous five years. Next we moved into a rental house in town while I kept the job I currently had. Six months later, this past November, as our lease was getting ready to expire, we knew that it was time to leave the town we had called home for the past six years. I quit my job, and we moved several hours away to a strange town that is far away from anything familiar. And this is where we are today. We are an isolated family that is completely void of fellowship. The same man who was once well thought of is now only thought of as crazy man who is a part of a cult (please note: I have no followers, nor do I pursue any). My wife who used to have many friends is now only pitied by them as the poor woman who is manipulated by her husband to go along with his craziness (My wife is free to do as she pleases. She is with me and faithful to me because she has watched me travel down this road. She saw real changes in my life, and came seeking for God to change her. She will tell you, yes even when I’m not around, that she is very happy. Our life used to be hell on earth, today it is an incredible marriage that is bases upon obedience to God. Her devotion to me is based upon her devotion to God, as well as her personal belief that I am truly walking in truth.).

If I did not see all the warnings from Christ that all these things would take place, then I would possibly wonder as to whether or not I was truly on track. However, as it is, Jesus was very faithful to explain to his followers that all these things would happen to those who are sincerely following him. I’m so thankful that he took to time to warn us of these things. For now, instead of these hardships bringing sadness, they instead bring joy as they confirm that we are truly walking in his footsteps.

If you were to ask me to describe my life today, I might say that it is one giant contradiction. I am incredibly miserable ( miserable because I am misunderstood, miserable because we long for fellowship with others, miserable because I feel I have something wonderful to share that no one really wants to hear, etc.), and yet I am completely filled with joy. I have much turmoil in my life (from breaking fellowship with family), and yet I have undescribable peace. In the world’s eyes I am a reproach, I am someone that no one else would like to be, and yet I can honestly say that I consider myself to be the most blessed man in the world and that I would not change places with anyone.


Now, as I started to say earlier, I am very thankful that God did not show me all of this in advance. I’m not sure how I would have responded to such knowledge. I’m afraid that fear may have overwhelmed me and caused me to lose heart and turn away. But thankfully my Father is most kind. He knows my weaknesses and my limits. He is always faithful to lead me step by step. Some steps are bigger than others, but none are beyond my reach. For this kindness I am most thankful.

With all of this said, some may be wondering “what is the point of all of this?” I guess the point of all of this is to once again let the readers who are familiar with my journey know that I did not choose my steps lightly. As I said earlier, I took every step with great caution. Every step was made with the utmost fear of God in my heart. I did not just one day decide to invent a doctrine that would cause others to assume I have gone crazy. I did not make up things to believe simply to turn my life upside down (why would anyone do that?). Instead, it has been a step by step journey, a journey founded upon scripture and obedience to God that has led me here.

If my life were to draw the attention of main stream “Christianity”, then you can bet that I would likely become the poster child for why it is not safe to trust completely in scripture alone. I can hear preachers warning their congregations that they must always seek insight from others when studying scripture or else they may end up like PJ. Yes, I will admit that if I had heeded everyone's warning and tempered my understanding of scripture with popular doctrine and popular teachings, then I would certainly not be in this place I am to day. Had I heeded the warnings that were given to me, I would still be well thought of by others, and possibly on my way to great success with in the religious world. But as it is, I chose to go my own way and trust in scripture alone. As a result of this “foolish” choice, I stand where I do to day. Am I truly a fool, or have I acted wisely? I guess at this point only the judgement seat will reveal the truth. My God is good and wise. I hope that I will accept his verdict as just and good regardless of what it is.

Before finishing this post, let me offer my most sincere advice. Be careful not to judge me on the basis of popular belief. What is popular is not always correct. In fact, the wisdom in scripture seems to say that if it is popular then it is most likely not in line with truth. Just the same, the fact that something is not popular does not make it truth. Instead, truth stands on it own. A truth is true whether a billion people believe it or even if no one believes it. While I will not tell you to trust me, I will advise you to make all you judgement about me based upon scripture alone. If the scripture reveals that I can not possibly be on track with God and his Son, then may you make your judgement about me with confidence. However, if the scripture does not reprove me, then do not be foolish to cast judgement upon just because I walk alone. Regardless of your opinion of me, I hope that each of you will become devoted lovers of truth. May you love truth more than comfort. May we always examine ourselves in light of God’s word and be honest with ourselves. The great day is going to reveal all things. May we let God reveal all corruption now, instead of on that day when it will be too late.

I sincerely hope for the good of each of you,

PJ

PS. This will be my last post as “PJ”. The initials “PJ” stood for something from a past life that I want to leave behind (don’t worry, it was nothing dirty or profane). I’m not saying that I won’t post again, I’m only saying that I won’t post again as “PJ”. In fact, I actually hope to make a series of post in the near future, however, I will do this under a different name. Until then, may your love for God and your love for truth grow and grow.

 2007/1/29 21:03Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: 3 and one half years ago!!!

Quote:

PJ wrote:

While this process of learning was beginning separate me from everything I used to hold dear, there was still much separation to come. Eventually this process of learning would lead me to a conclusion that the institutionalized “church” was without any doubt the “Great Whore of Babylon” that was under that control of the “beast”. I came to understand that God aloud this institution to exist for the purpose of testing his sincere believers. I came to understand that his sincere believers would recognize what the institution truly was while the faithless would forever be deceived by it.



I too long to be separated from the corruption and sin found in much of today’s institutionalized church, but I am called to it as a missionary to a dark and foreign mission field. I am attending a “Christian College” and there is much darkness, wickedness, and perversion here to be sad about. It grieves me, and makes me sick at times when I see how utterly far off the mark the”church” has drifted.

But I am not here for me, I’m here for God. It is not my Father’s will that any should perish.

I long to see my Fathers face, but does he not deserve the reward of his suffering?

Shall we not be “lights in the darkness” until he calls us home?

In His Service

TJ


_________________
TJ

 2007/1/29 21:40Profile
Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

I would be careful in separating the "institutionalized" church from being apart of the body of Christ. Jesus loves His bride. He is jealous for His bride. Even when He rebuked the lukewarm Laodicean church in Revelation He said "those I LOVE I rebuke".

Though I too disagree with much of what can go on in the megachurch, institutionalized church setting - i still know they are the bride of Christ.

there's nothing wrong with seeking a fellowship elsewhere, but take heed not to get prideful and to have a critical eye towards those within the institutonalized setting. there are many awesome men and women of God in such settings. who are we to judge another master's servant? God has sent revivals and outpouring to such settings in the past. welsh revival, azusa street, etc.

what is key is not the location where the church is, or the types of services they have... what is key is that the body of believers are in one accord and that Life is preemiment in the meeting.

 2007/1/29 22:10Profile
Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

and remember... submission and authorities within the church setting are biblical. there tends to be a rebellious attitude when it comes to church leadership nowadays. Miriam and Aaron said in Numbers "Who does Moses think he is? don't we all hear from God?!" that's the same attitude in many today.

rebellion is as witchcraft.

 2007/1/29 22:14Profile









 Re: PJ...throw out your name, not yourself

PJ...

I am new to this site and relatively new to being a Christian. I feel somewhat the same now, as you did 3.5 years ago. When I first found this site, I was and still am like a kid in a candy store (no dentist required).

Presently, I am awaiting approval into a divinity program in Canada, so I believe in about 3.5 years, I too, will have grown much more than I can imagine and I am sure to have changed some of my beliefs about things that I have learned or am learning now.

However, I pray that I will not isolate myself and distance myself in a way that I am unable to allow people to see how I am living for Christ, especially friends and family. I know my family and friends think I am crazy. I know my fellow employees think I am crazy. That does not mean that I will avoid them or stop trying to help them.

If they are threatened or feel uncomfortable around me, I will allow them to distance themselves from me. I do not know you and obviously I do not know your journey, but God forbid, I become isolated to the point that I move to places that are more comfortable for me.

We are soldiers. I heard someone mention of an 18 year old who said, "We are not on a pleasure cruise heading for heaven, rather, we are on a battleship in front of the path to hell, trying to save souls".

I understand that you, PJ, are probably wiser than I am and have much more experience and I also do not know what you are doing in your new area, but we are to serve and suffer for Jesus. If you and your wife are distancing from family and friends, who will help them, if your new understanding is 'better' than theirs?!

Do not get me wrong. I believe that you are probably more in touch with truth than anyone of them, or even me, for that matter, but that should mean that you are to help us...right??

Whether you continue to post under a new name or not, I would appreciate your comments or advice. Although, from my limited experience, I will not avoid people because they do not understand. Do not throw yourself away, as you throw your old name away, too.

God Bless you and Your Wife
BrianMira

P.S. I do not think you are crazy. If you are than I am too!

 2007/1/29 22:42
Meriwether
Member



Joined: 2006/8/13
Posts: 33


 Re: 3 and one half years ago!!!

I'm concerned for you, brother.

Something just sounds wrong about forsaking fellowship with believers and family. Is it because you couldn't find a good church? Were your family involved in criminal behavior or gross immorality?


 2007/1/30 0:33Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: 3 and one half years ago!!!

I can sincerely say I have experienced much of the same revulsion with things I have seen taking place in the " institutional church". However I don't feel the scripture backs bowing out of fellowhip with other believers. We need each other. We uniquely have gifts that the rest of the body needs. To withhold your gift from the rest of the body causes a dropped stitch. The links are not complete. I will just list a couple of scriptures and allow them to speak for themselves:

-----------------------------------------------

Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

-----------------------------------------------

1Cr 12:12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1Cr 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

1Cr 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

1Cr 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

1Cr 12:17 If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling?

1Cr 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

1Cr 12:19 And if they were all one member, where [were] the body?

1Cr 12:20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.

1Cr 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

1Cr 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

1Cr 12:23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.

1Cr 12:24 For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked:

1Cr 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.

1Cr 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

1Cr 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

----------------------------------------------

I too went through a period of time when I isolated myself, but a body doesn't only have one member. God didn't design it that way. I am reminded of brother Art Katz who teaches that we need that very friction that is caused by rubbing up against members different than ourselves to perfect us. When we have to deal with a carnal christian it teaches us to correct in love. When we are the carnal christian it teaches us to receive correction in a spirit of meekness. We need each other. It is the difficult people and churches that establish us more in what we believe it we adhere to the word. Our response reveals what is in our hearts.

If we have learned anything of value in our personal study of the word and intimacy with God we owe it to the body to share that treasure if we can. Isolating ourselves does not help to mature the body or correct the body.

I have said I could easily be a monk. I would love to go away and it just be me and God, but God wants our light to shine in the darkness and make a difference.

We need you buddy.

It is easy to see the blaring ugliness of the church right now, but it take vision to see what it can be. God wants us to see a mighty army in the driest of bones. He wants us to call the things that are not as though they were. We can fast and pray and weep over the condition of the body and know know that God is able to complete the work He wants to do before all it too late.

There is a remnant scattered throughout the churches that grieves over the condition of what they see. However God isn't finished with her yet. He will have a bride without spot or wrinkle.

----------------------------------------------

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

-----------------------------------------------


I am not rebuking you brother. Your desire to come out from among them a be separate is indicative of your desire for holiness. That is such a blessing. But you can't impact the world or the church it you don't touch them.

Blessings and peace unto you an your house.


_________________
KLC

 2007/1/30 1:11Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi PJ.

In seeing your post and reading a little of it I was reminded again of the Essens. Again, I wonder if they ever embraced the Messiah? I wonder too, why does God not seem to even mention them in His word, even at all? Even though they had seperated themselves from the religous system at Jerusalem which had corruption, were they really following God?

Am reminded again also of this passage of scripture, spoken while the old covenant was still in effect


[i]Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.[/i]


Just a thought here, but aren't these seats with us still today? the seats of the elders and of the bishops and of the deacons, which were ordainded of the Apostles?


I think too that, when the time came to break away from the old system that had been established, a new covenant was brought in, by the Son of God, and confirmed through His Apostles with signs and wonders following.


And then this word comes to mind


[i]Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.[/i]


Has anyone told us, thus sayeth the Lord?

Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/1/30 5:06Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: 3 and one half years ago!!!

Brother,

Began reading this last night and followed up to completion this morning, certainly concerns did I awaken to.

Being of the same longevity here and recalling that of earlier postings and more recently the 'change' in ... perspective that you last forwarded here, similar in scope to this ...

Let me start off with a blow. Their is entirely far too much of "PJ" in all this. Brother, being that you have done a great deal of review of your own past writing's here, re-read all this once again with one 'word' in mind as you do; And that word is the glaring word;

[b]I[/b]

You are writing in tense that sees only through your own eye's and gives off an air of "having graduated" to a position that set's yourself off to the side... [i]'thanks for the help but ...'[/i]. No man is an island.

Quote:
God had began to show me that it was not good to continue fellowship with those who were not up the same faith as myself.



You are mistaken. Faith in the Son of God will and [i]ought[/i] to take you through many places that not only find points of disagreement but also as was rightly alluded to by Chris, area's where one can practice the lost art of humility, of learning, of being ...

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, [b]all of you be subject one to another[/b], and be clothed [u]with humility[/u]: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Point of extra emphasis; [i]God resisteth the proud[/i]

If you are able to set aside a great deal of where you believe to have found yourself. Put this all to the test, with all sincerity and soberness, prayerfully, slowly work your way through this series of articles and then come back and tell us if you can still hold all these things in right balance of understanding;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10733&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride[/url]

They go on from that launching point to [i]Pride and Humility[/i] and there is still yet more brother ...

Quote:
And this is where we are today. We are an isolated family that is completely void of fellowship. The same man who was once well thought of



Even with the explanatory addendum, the fact that you even make mention of 'once being well thought of' is descriptive of the same concern for [b]you[/b]. It is I believe a subtle little trick of the mind to assume that any and all things that come against us are [i]ipso facto[/i] proofs of persecution or fodder for being correct in our theology. How many here, suffering under all sorts of similar things even in quiet undisclosed ways could not make the same statement? And take note of just this, that they do not in 'announcements' of this sort but can be recognized in what they pour out amongst each other.

Beyond that, you and I do not, I repeat [i][b]Do Not[/b][/i] have the foggiest idea of what real persecution is. A taste, perhaps. All the mentions of being misunderstood, one can be shunned living in the midst of ones own loved ones, have we forgotten the very principle behind;

1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

There is a deadly attraction that keeps popping up and is very disturbing amongst us here at times;

[i]presumption[/i]

Quite applicable I am finding in far too many things. Are you doing this dear brother? Presuming this is all of the Lord? Or are you gleaning a 'best fit' theology, something that is pleasing to [i]your[/i] mind? Am I now introducing doubt's into your thinking? Emphatically, [b][i]Yes[/i][/b]! You are gleaning too quickly past the very ramifications of what this isolated thinking is doing and has done. Again, shunning your own family is not any proof of support because they did not capitulate to your new found 'coming of age'. I am on purpose being hard here, it is needed.

Quote:
However, as it is, Jesus was very faithful to explain to his followers that all these things would happen to those who are sincerely following him.



You might want to revisit that again in light of [u]all[/u] that what was also spoken in Hebrews 11; ...[i]They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:)...[/i]

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With all of this said, some may be wondering “what is the point of all of this?”

I did not just one day decide to invent a doctrine that would cause others to assume I have gone crazy.



Too much of the man I afraid still. Throughout this whole letter here questions begging answers;

Joh 3:30 [b]He[/b] must increase, but [b]I[/b] must [u]decrease[/u].

Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for [b]my sake[/b] shall find it

This is all about [i]you[/i], is it not? Your 'take', your 'stand', thing's [i]you[/i] have found?

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Yes, I will admit that if I had heeded everyone's warning and tempered my understanding of scripture with popular doctrine and popular teachings, then I would certainly not be in this place I am to day. Had I heeded the warnings that were given to me, [b]I would still be well thought of by others[/b], and possibly on my way to great success with in the religious world. But as it is, I chose to [b]go my own way and trust in scripture alone.[/b] As a result of this “foolish” choice, I stand where I do to day. Am I truly a fool, or have I acted wisely? I guess at this point only the judgement seat will reveal the truth. My God is good and wise. I hope that I will accept his verdict as just and good regardless of what it is.



Again, the mere mention unmasks you brother. Should I now enter the clause of no ill will intended? Not angry? Well, in one sense, whatever this poor fool [i]thinks[/i] is irrelevant. But there is foolishness of another sort here and you do not need to wait for the judgment seat when your own [i]kind[/i] have enough courage to point out the aberrations of where this is all heading, not the least the mention of damage already done. This is serious brother, I pray you take it with the utmost seriousness it warrants.

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Before finishing this post, let me offer my most sincere advice. Be careful not to judge me on the basis of popular belief.

I will advise you to make all you judgement about me based upon scripture alone. If the scripture reveals that I can not possibly be on track with God and his Son, then may you make your judgement about me with confidence.



And let me advise you just as well. Develop a healthy suspicion of [i]yourself[/i]. If you are as familiar with [i]all[/i] that scriptures discloses as you believe, a constant theme runs throughout about trusting these fallen minds ... Tomorrow, your whole point of view can be shattered if you hold it in such narrow confines, are unteachable, even unbeknownest to you, operating in a subtle rebellious spirit ... There is far too much yet [i]still[/i] that is hidden from your sight. Greater minds and hearts throughout the ages, longer longevities walking with the Lord, much they can teach us if we are but willing to [i]listen[/i] and test [i]all[/i] things ...

That I have a great deal of confidence in admonishing you. These minds of ours are great tricksters. The world, the flesh and the devil, of these the mind must process and it is there where the questions must be raised and considered and [i]re-considered[/i], ongoing. Do not forget [i]all[/i] the warnings in scripture, [i]take heed[/i]...

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him [b]that thinketh he standeth[/b] take heed lest he fall.

The greatest of them all in this instance. Purposefully did I also stay away from any points of agreement, for there are those as well. But that is the last thing you need to hear right now, in your own words...

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What a joy it was to read “amens” to what I was saying instead of being looked upon as strange.



When it boils right down to it these things are exposing you left and right. Who cares if one is thought 'strange'? Why make note of it if it is not such a concern? If you are looking for accommodations to your 'plight' I have no sympathy. Honesty and sincerity do not always equal truth. Motivation, sincerity certainly not entirely lacking here, misunderstanding your heart\intentions not the question, the questions are derived from what you have brought forth.

[i]Thus saith the LORD of hosts; [u]Consider your ways.[/u] Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.[/i] Hag 1:7,8

Principle here. [i]Consider your ways[/i]. And consider the end ...

[i]and [b]I[/b] will be glorified, saith the LORD[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/1/30 9:39Profile
PJ
Member



Joined: 2003/7/29
Posts: 76


 Re: correction made

Mike,

When I was reading your response I noticed an error I had made in when typing. My intention was to say that is was not good to contiue fellowship with those that are not "of" the same faith. Originally I had put "up" the same faith. I made the correction.

I'm glad your post broght this to my attention.

Sincerely,
PJ

 2007/1/30 10:37Profile





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