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Mattie
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Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Practical and Spiritual

There are many different types of churches in America. There are the churches that are entirely spiritual - in the sense that it's all about the charisma, the gifts, the spiirtual realm, etc. Then there's the other churches that focus on principles and practical issues of life - family, finances, relationships, etc.

Where can there be a right balance between these in a church setting? Some say we need to focus on the attributes of God and stop teaching about the human person. Others say we need to focus on the human to know the sinful nature vs the new nature, etc.

I hope I'm making sense. Any thoughts would be wonderful on this matter...

 2007/1/28 18:16Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 general comments

There are two polar opposite extremes in churches and I believe every flavor in between. I often hear people say to walk in the "spirit", but it must be detremined what is spirit? I understand that God is spirit, and that His Word is spirit (God breathed), I guess when I see people doing His word I have come to understand that they are walking In the Spirit [word] and when i see people used in the extraordinary giftings of the Holy Spirit, I see that as a "now" expression of God interjecting Himself into ....... the specifics in life, almost as if to get the attention of thoughs present, or to move to the meeting of needs/deliverences/helps/mercy/etc.... Both are to done in obedience through faith.
As to the focus? I believe the more we see Jesus and His glory, the more we are changed and understand not only ourselves but mankind in general. Let all things (teaching-preaching-works-programs-churches-etc...) be done to bring glory to God.


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D.Miller

 2007/1/28 21:49Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Practical and Spiritual

What a great question, I wish I had a great answer. What I do think is that right balance depends very much on the framework of vision that a church has. For example, when Israel was in bondage in Egypt all they could think about was getting out, that's one framework. Then when they were out all they could think about was getting into the promised land, another framework, and so on. But all the while God had a larger intention that the people missed for the most part, men like Joshua were the exception. We need men like Joshua who lived beyond their day.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2007/1/28 22:48Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

I think the answer may lie in the area of deciding on the 'purpose' of 'church'. There are at least three basic answers to this and all the spectrum between them.

Can I suggest you draw an equilateral triangle. At the top angle put the word 'God', at the bottom left angle put the word 'Saints' and at the bottom right angle put the word 'Seekers'. Now think about what you think the purpose of 'church' is and put a dot inside your triangle corresponding to the different emphases. If you think that the purpose is 100% to reach the 'Seeker' put your dot in the bottom right corner, etc

That will probably tell you what you are looking for. I think I know what the answer is going to be, but I will leave you to experiment first. 8-)

It is when those gathered in 'church' have very different expectations and aims that the frictions can arise.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/29 4:03Profile
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re: Practical and Spiritual

This is what I think about Church. The preacher needs to constantly be turning your gaze upwards. I understand we have real problems in this world, but if the preaching is constantly man-centered the preaching is not from the Holy Spirit. The same would be for the gifts. I would say that if the "Spirit" is taking our gaze away from Jesus..it's really the "flesh".

As far as "seeker" churches..that is not Biblical. The church is to be a body of believers that are being edified by the Word of God..and then able to go out and evangelize. Also Romans 3:11 says no man seeks God...so a "seeker" church is really just a church that has decided mans ideas are better than the Holy Spirits.

 2007/1/29 12:09Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
As far as "seeker" churches..that is not Biblical. The church is to be a body of believers that are being edified by the Word of God..and then able to go out and evangelize.


So if you were to conduct my little experiment your choice would be 'Saints' as the main purpose of 'church'?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/29 13:18Profile
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re:

Yes church is for Saints to be edified...obviously non-saints do come into church but a clear message on Jesus Christ is what they need to hear as well as what Saints need to hear.

2Peter12Therefore I intend always to remind you of these qualities, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have.

Which if you read 2 Peter you see Peter is talking about not only what non-saints need but what saints need to hear...so yeah good stuff

 2007/1/29 14:03Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re:

Interesting the word 'saints' is introduced here....Have you ever considered nowhere in the NT is any book written to the 'sinners at...'? So now why do the children of God call themselves sinners when Romans 1:7 says we are called to be saints? "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Do you consider yourself to be a saint? ;-)

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2007/1/29 18:42Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Do you consider yourself to be a saint?


What is much more important is whether or not God considers me to be a saint. ;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/29 18:53Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Yes church is for Saints to be edified...obviously non-saints do come into church but a clear message on Jesus Christ is what they need to hear as well as what Saints need to hear.


So 'saints' with a side dressing for 'seekers'? What about God?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/29 18:56Profile





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