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Discussion Forum : General Topics : tribes that never heard of jesus

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 Re:

PreachParsly,

The daily newspaper routinely contains significant errors due to miscommunications, bias, egos, personnel issues, etc. but I trust them to tell me who runs the government and reliably provide much information. i get the same from the Bible. there's lots of information being presented in lots of ways and if i use the brain and reasoning that God gave me i can sort out most of it and the rest i leave to the Leadings of the Spirit. so, yes, i rely upon the Bible to tell me that Jesus existed, preached a message of forgiveness of sins, and died upon the cross at the hands of the Romans. but i'm not about to just throw all human reasoning away and uncritically accept stories in the Bible that are obviously not factual or literal, nor intended to be by their authors.

bub

 2007/1/25 20:59
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Bubbaguy,

Quote:
the alternative is to believe that an all-powerful God created the universe and us with the foreknowledge that an angel would rebel and become the devil and lead many of his created humans, which He obstenibly loves, into eternal damnation and torture. No loving God would do such a thing, but that is what the Church is essentially saying, God created people (the unsaved) in order for them to go to hell with the devil?!



The problem with the above statement is where you say, "God created the unsaved." God did not create anyone unsaved. The choice to defy God's Word was our own. You cannot remove accountability.

God created us for love. In order to love, we must be able to make a willing choice. We must be able to believe in God by our our will. This is our choice, and God honors that choice.

People are lead by the Devil, but the choice is ours. God will not force anyone to accept Jesus as Lord. God will not force anyone to reject the Devil as Leader, either.

God did not create anyone for Hell. A person is sent to Hell based upon his or her choice. God honors their choice.

Quote:
all undergoing multiple, progressive lifetimes



The problem with this theory is that we do not take knowledge from one lifetime to another. Who has previous knowledge of another life? Do you?

God knows the heart of all people, and He judges by the heart. If a person is truly seeking the truth, God Himself, then He will send someone bearing the gospel.

If the person in one life did not seek the Lord with his or her heart, why would a second life be needed? Do you not think the Lord could redeem a person in the lifetime He has given them to live?

Whether God allows a person to live 18 seconds or 110 years, He knows what is in their heart. He also knows how long it will take to make their heart fertile for planting the gospel seed. Don't you think the Lord would give everyone just enough time to accomplish His purpose?

Just some things to consider.

In love,
Your brother in Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/1/25 21:03Profile









 Re:

Quote:

beenblake wrote:
Dear Bubbaguy,

Quote:
the alternative is to believe that an all-powerful God created the universe and us with the foreknowledge that an angel would rebel and become the devil and lead many of his created humans, which He obstenibly loves, into eternal damnation and torture. No loving God would do such a thing, but that is what the Church is essentially saying, God created people (the unsaved) in order for them to go to hell with the devil?!



The problem with the above statement is where you say, "God created the unsaved." God did not create anyone unsaved. The choice to defy God's Word was our own. You cannot remove accountability.

God created us for love. In order to love, we must be able to make a willing choice. We must be able to believe in God by our our will. This is our choice, and God honors that choice.

People are lead by the Devil, but the choice is ours. God will not force anyone to accept Jesus as Lord. God will not force anyone to reject the Devil as Leader, either.

God did not create anyone for Hell. A person is sent to Hell based upon his or her choice. God honors their choice.

Quote:
all undergoing multiple, progressive lifetimes



The problem with this theory is that we do not take knowledge from one lifetime to another. Who has previous knowledge of another life? Do you?

God knows the heart of all people, and He judges by the heart. If a person is truly seeking the truth, God Himself, then He will send someone bearing the gospel.

If the person in one life did not seek the Lord with his or her heart, why would a second life be needed? Do you not think the Lord could redeem a person in the lifetime He has given them to live?

Whether God allows a person to live 18 seconds or 110 years, He knows what is in their heart. He also knows how long it will take to make their heart fertile for planting the gospel seed. Don't you think the Lord would give everyone just enough time to accomplish His purpose?

Just some things to consider.

In love,
Your brother in Christ,
Blake



A-hem, Blake, my friend, me thinks you have some rethinking to do over in another thread, don't you believe so?

Orm

 2007/1/25 21:17









 Re:

Blake,

Why would an allknowing, allpowerful God create a person knowing that they will reject Him in the future and go to hell?

does a perfect God create inferior beings that have such bad judgement?

bub

 2007/1/25 21:19
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
but i'm not about to just throw all human reasoning away and uncritically accept stories in the Bible that are obviously not factual or literal, nor intended to be by their authors.



How do you know if something is factual or not? What is your standard?


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/1/25 21:25Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear bubbaguy,

Quote:
if you let a Christian pastor tell you that the theory of evolution is an evil idea produced to confuse those who love the Word of God, then religion is being used to dumb down and stifle the mind.



Paul said we should test all things. I do believe this is true even for matters of science. The foundation of science is based upon testing, though it's results are objective and empirically based versus spiritually based.

As for the matter of evolution, have you studied this theory in depth? Do you find that it agrees with what you believe about God?

The theory of evolution bears some truth based upon observable evidence, but it has also been quickly introduced into many areas of science including anthropology where the evidence is blurry, if non-existent.

Micro-evolution has been proven. We can easily see evolution at work on a cellular level where the genes from man and woman are passed to form a new born baby. However, macro-evolution has no firm basis and is often contradictory to the relationship of man and God. Primarily this is seen in the explanation of morality and the development of self and love. Evolution basically says that humanity has evolved from animals. This means that our "free will" or ability to love did not come from God. Rather, this trait or quality that exists in humanity came about from a process of genetic mutation.

Where evolution and theology conflict is in the purpose of humankind. Evolution does not embrace love as the purpose that humanity was created. It does not embrace our call for holiness, righteousness, or authority. Rather, according to evolution, humanity is merely an animal that has evolved into a new species. We have no purpose. We are merely a freak accident that happened by chance.

Is this what you believe? Do you think God intentionally created us to love one another, or do you think humanity evolved by a accidental genetic mutation?

Now, I have heard some say, "Evolution is the process by that God created all life." However, this also contradicts.

Firstly, if God had used this process of evolution to develop all the species on earth, then there would be more variations between the species. You would not see clear cut distinctions between say cats and dogs, as there would be more variations between species. Instead, we see variations within a species without any crossing to another.

Secondly, there has been yet a successful cross between species. We cannot mate a dog and cat to produce a new species. A donkey and horse may produce a mule when mated, however, mules cannot reproduce.

Thirdly, death entered the world through sin. Before sin, there was no death. Therefore, if Adam had evolved from humanoids, those creatures were still alive at the time Adam sinned. In fact, all the variations of evolution would have existed at the time of Adam. You would have seen living ever step between a single cell to Adam Himself.

However, evolution has no establishment as to why anything ages and dies. Many surmise that aging is caused by a gene. However, if this were true, would not this gene have faded out of the gene pool first?

Fourthly, God created each to their own kind. When God created, He established different kinds. He established unique species. We this applied to everything on earth. A stone is different from dirt is different from clouds is different from grass. God established things with properties and characteristics. We have discovered unique elements that give way atomically to all things.

Lastly, evolution proposes [url=http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_16]four mechanism of change.[/url] The only one of the four that can produce a previously unknown species or trait that has never existed is by genetic mutation. This mutation results because of an "error." If evolution is true, then all life has come about because of an "error". Do you believe this? Is humanity just one big mistake?

Some things to make you think,

In love,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/1/25 21:35Profile









 Re:

of course, that depends upon the issue at hand, standards vary. for instance, 29 times 3 can be verified to be exactly 87. but that's not what you are getting at, is it?

what's your real question?

 2007/1/25 21:36









 Re:

Blake quote:

"Where evolution and theology conflict is in the purpose of humankind. Evolution does not embrace love as the purpose that humanity was created. It does not embrace our call for holiness, righteousness, or authority. Rather, according to evolution, humanity is merely an animal that has evolved into a new species. We have no purpose. We are merely a freak accident that happened by chance."

I agree with this, as far as it goes. Science doesn't hold humankind as a special, Holy beings. and there is "that of God" in each person which is not something evolution can explain. in this way i see these two as being complimentary, rather than in conflict. Christianity explains for me the lost soul of man and science the physical container. God bless you all,

Bubbaguy

 2007/1/25 21:48
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Bubba,

Quote:
Why would an allknowing, allpowerful God create a person knowing that they will reject Him in the future and go to hell?



This is the same question a rebellious teenager asks his parents when his life is filled with pain. Why would any parent have children fully knowing that they will suffer on this earth?

There are several reasons for this. Firstly, the "evil" ones are allowed to live to fulfill God's purpose. They help bring God's people into repentance. Secondly, God's will for everyone is that we love God and live with Him forever. A person is sent to Hell for defying God's will. A person is sent to Hell for their choice. God made His choice. He chose to give that person life. The person then made a choice to oppose God. The person suffers in Hell for eternity because God's Will is eternal. He does not change. God's eternal desires is that we live forever with Him in love. However, a person suffers in Hell for eternity because they have rejected Him.

If God changed His perfect will for that person to have life, then God's will would not be perfect would it? Do you think God should change His Will just because a person rejects Him?

You cannot ask God to do this. God is love. His will is His love. In love, God desired to give a person life. If God were ever to change His Will, then He would be acting contrary to His nature. God loves us so much that He has allowed us this choice.

God is love. Hell is a testimony to the love of God. God loves us so much, He is willing to let us have what we want.

Quote:
does a perfect God create inferior beings that have such bad judgement?



Again, you just do not understand. Our choice is not simply a matter of "bad judgment." Our choice is not a mental activity. Our choice is a spiritual one that happens in our heart. Love is an eternal choice. Whoever says, "I will love you for a few days, but that's all." We always say, "I will love you forever." It is foolish, because we die, but we still say it.

We all have bad judgment. Who is not ignorant. Who can see all things?

Those who goto Hell are not "inferior." They do not goto Hell because they are lesser. Hell is a place of immense honor. God honors a person so much, He sends them to Hell. He could easily just annihilate them and remove their choice. Instead, He says, "If you don't want to love me, then I honor your choice. You may be with the one you love." The only problem is that the one they love lives in Hell.

Hope this helps,

In love,
Blake







_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/1/25 21:57Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
A-hem, Blake, my friend, me thinks you have some rethinking to do over in another thread, don't you believe so?



Nothing I have said conflicts. If it does, then please show me. Feel free to put me on public display. If you prove my words to be contradictory, I will admit my fault. I have made mistakes before, just ask Krispy.

In love,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/1/25 22:00Profile





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