SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Concerns about The Passion

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

I totally agree with you, Mary. While I agree with Leonard Ravenhill (the comment about Entertainment is a substitute for joy), I was not entertained in the least. I sat through the film -- totally engrossed with the vivid description of the crucifixion.

While the descriptions of the suffering of Christ is limited in the Gospels, it was not limited to those who were oppressed by the Romans during that time. Crucifixions were an almost common occurence in nations that were conquered by Rome. People were often FORCED to watch them, thus providing fear to the hearts of any would-be rebellions.

And while the New Testament is not entirely clear on the entirety of Christ's suffering, the Old Testament (especially the Book of Isaiah) provides countless clues into the true "Passion of the Christ."

This being said, I was deeply impressed with this depiction. I have traveled to the Tarahumara in the mountains of the Sierra Madre Occidental mountains of mid-western Mexico in order to show the Campus Crusade film, "Jesus." That film (the most watched film in the history of the world) has had a profound effect on nearly all who have seen it. But, just like Mel Gibson's film, it was made by humans -- and (gasp!) humans are prone to mistake.

I believe that there has never been a film, or play -- or even painting -- that has graphically depicted the suffering of Christ as this movie. I watched it in a sold-out theater filled with non-believers. Many were cursing, drinking and smoking as they stood in line to view it. And incredibly, many of these people were weeping during the film. I rejoice in that. I also rejoice in the fact that nearly every car in that packed megaplex had a tract on the windshield filled with scripture reference on how to "find" Jesus for ourselves.

I made a comment to a friend of mine at my University that Christians spend so much money on some often weird evangelical efforts. Some (like TBN) spend millions on ridiculous, off-the-wall "christian" films -- that usually just prove "how weird christians really are."

It is amazing to me that Mel Gibson (a man of "questionable" faith) has been able to turn nearly every movie house in America into a "church" for nearly two hours -- and how he has been able to "preach" the love of God to multiple millions of people. Yet so many christians are so willing to dismiss it as "sin." Why can't we just "rejoice that the Gospel is preached?"

As of today, the film that cost only $25 million to make (and was said would not make even that back) has grossed over $225 million at the theater. That represents about 44 million people having seen the film in the United States alone. By the time this film has run its course (and subsequent DVD is released) -- perhaps that number may reach 100 million. Can't we rejoice in the fact that many millions may "hear" of Jesus, "see" his suffering and death, and "witness" his resurrection? I know that I am rejoicing.


_________________
Christopher

 2004/3/10 12:46Profile
Philip
Member



Joined: 2003/10/23
Posts: 26
Kansas, USA

 Re: asked for flesh...

God help us... we are tired of manna so we asked for flesh and we have been given flesh and we love it. We love our entertainment and now even pay $7.50 to go see Christ crucified. Would you have payed to see the orginal event?

Quote:
"Then believed they his words; they sang his praise. They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel: But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert. And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul."
Psalm 106:12-15



(1)There are parts in this movie that are obviously not biblical, yet it seems that everyone dismisses the errors as "dramatic license". To portray Satan throughout is entirely lacking in the biblical account. He is only spoke of as entering into Judas. Other seens also have dramatic license as spoke of in Passionates post. Is this ok, or shall we call it what it really is? It is not in the biblical account, therefore it is unbiblical, if it is therefor unbiblical it is a lie, and it is impossible for God to lie. If it is unbiblical, what other parts are also giving us a false representation of Jesus?

Quote:
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry"

2 Tim 4:3-5



(2) Is there any repentance preached in the movie? Remember what Leonard Ravenhill reminded us about Christ? He began with repentance, and ended with repentance. Yet this Christ is being preached without repentance, forgiveness without repentance.

Quote:
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Luke 13:5



(3) Did not Jesus warn us of this?

Quote:
"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."

Matt 24:23-26



(4) Without the Holy Ghost we have nothing. Many saw the crucifixion and resurrection, yet no one had any change until the Holy Spirit came. Even the disciples say Jesus alive and living, but Peter just wanted to go back fishing. Finally we found them in the upper room and then they had power when the Holy Ghost came and then people were saved. "...they waited not for his counsel..." Are we willing to wait for his counsel? Or are we dissatisfied with the manna he has given and now we want flesh. God help us...

Quote:
"Also, thou son of man, the children of thy people still are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the houses, and speak one to another, every one to his brother, saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD. And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they show much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not. And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them."

Ezekiel 33:30-33



This scripture is us! It is me! My God have mercy! God, wake us up! Show us your truth, let us not be led away by everything our heart lusts after... purify your church Lord! Don't let us be given over to deception. Help us O God!

 2004/3/10 14:09Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

By the way, before The Passion of the Christ, the highest grossing christian film was Jonah: A Veggie Tales Movie. That film grossed nearly $25.6 million.

Just thought you might want to know.

Source: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/christian.htm


_________________
Christopher

 2004/3/10 14:45Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Know anyone who was saved as an indirect result of the film?

The coach who lives next door to me in my dorm was very moved, and has been seeking God now. He has attended church every service since seeing the film.


_________________
Christopher

 2004/3/10 23:25Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re: Why?

I saw the film last night and I must say that if I was not a Christian and knew the gospel, I wouldn't know the gospel from this film.

The film didn't give the reason why Christ had to die, and how we can be saved through His death.

The film was on a physical level, it needed to be on a spiritual level.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2004/3/11 4:16Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37084
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
God help us... we are tired of manna so we asked for flesh and we have been given flesh and we love it. We love our entertainment and now even pay $7.50 to go see Christ crucified. Would you have payed to see the orginal event?


I have to say that I am convicted after reading Brother Phillips message to us. Everything that we do and are as Christians in the western world is so foriegn and contray to most of what the new testament Church was! did they have play's and dramas about Jesus live? did they use puppets? mimes? did they have to use wordly entertainment of there days? NO. They preached and the message they gave was simply 'christ crucified'!

I am not saying we shouldnt use this opportunity to witness to the lost but at the same time if this is the biggest time of ingathering for the church through an hollywood movie, then God help us. We need to pray and preach with the annointing and power that the Church had, and that doesnt come easy are we willing to tarry and put God in the place that they did. Are we fully dependant on God and His power to save in our generation?


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/3/11 8:43Profile
Philip
Member



Joined: 2003/10/23
Posts: 26
Kansas, USA

 Re: Where did we learn this?

There is a question we should ask about everything we do in our lives... From who did we or from where did we learn this? Where did we learn to evangelize through movies? Did we learn from God or from ourselves or from the world?

...I believe when we truly begin to study it, most of our methods and means in Evangelizism and Christianity for that matter have been learned from the world and not from God... "and my people love it so..."

Quote:
"...in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings."
Jeremiah 23:20b-22



Read Jeremiah 23... see if it applies to today. God let your church again wait for your counsel... let us again hear your words.

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it."

Amos 8:11-12

 2004/3/11 10:33Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re: A Statement

Rick Holland, a pastor at Grace Community Church, had this to say about The Passion of the Christ:

After months of promotion and discussion, Mel Gibson's movie The Passion of the Christ has finally been released in theaters all over the world. Never before has a movie caused so much of a stir BEFORE being released, and it will surely continue its provocation as masses see it. It is not an exaggeration to say that almost every Christian will be asked what he thinks about the film.

I saw the movie in a private screening at Mr. Gibson's production company back before Christmas. It was two of the most disturbing hours in my memory. The movie is graphic, stunning, shocking, and relentless in its portrayal of the sufferings of Jesus. All who see it are sure to be emotionally impacted by it. Covering the final twelve hours of Christ's life, Gibson has painted a masterpiece with the camera of what happened to Jesus from Gethsemane to the cross.

But that is part of my concern with the film. Because it covers only the final twelve hours of Christ's life (with a few flashbacks), it is much like making a movie on the last chapter of a book. These hours are the theological culmination of the gospel narrative. But taken by itself, this snapshot of Jesus' life includes little context for His sufferings. What this does is leave the events open to the interpretation of the viewer. Absent of any theological explanation for the sufferings and death of Jesus, the movie allows for those bloody twelve hours to mean whatever the viewer wants them to mean. Postmodernism at its finest!

Don't misunderstand. As a believer with a thorough understanding of the historical and theological nuances of the Passion narrative, I was able to contextualize the movie by putting it through a Reformed, Protestant, theological grid. Verses like 2 Corinthians 5:21—"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"—were given a visual link in my mind. Knowing, understanding, and believing the gospel brought significance to what I saw. But without such a preconception, it is not clear what this story will mean to its viewers. I heard a man interviewed who said that if an alien came to earth and was taken to see this movie, he would have no idea why this happened to Jesus. The film is generic enough in its presentation of the events that a Catholic could put it through his sacramental grid and be just as pleased as a Protestant with the film's contents. Perhaps that is part of Gibson's "genius."

The question that keeps coming to my mind is whether or not there is enough gospel truth in the film for a person to be truly saved. I am not certain that there is. When providing the salient historical and theological data for understanding salvation, the Holy Spirit chose to present more than the final hours of Jesus life. Further, He used twenty-three more biblical books to explain the meaning and implications of faith in the sacrificed Son of God. It is more than the facts of Christ's death that are the means of converting a soul; it is the meaning of those facts. There are many who believe in the historicity of the cross, who are no more saved than someone who has never heard of Jesus. What is needed is theological context.

Gibson has produced a movie that accurately conveys the events during Christ's final twelve hours leading up to His death. But to explain the meaning of His infinitely precious sacrifice, we need to fill in the blanks with the insight of His substitutionary atonement.

Pastors, church leaders, and teachers should take extra time to equip people to be knowledgeable and clear about what the cross means. The goal should be to engage in conversations about the movie in the coming weeks, making every effort to move beyond the film to the enormity of the meaning of Christ's vicarious sacrifice for the sins of all those who would believe. Christ will be most glorified from this if we can shift these conversations from the film to the gospel.

Should you see the movie? That is up to your conscience. But we all have the opportunity to use any discussions about it to introduce people to the gospel. The Passion of the Christ does not answer the right questions, but it does raise them. I look forward to talking about my Lord with those who see the film. I trust you do as well.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2004/3/11 11:10Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Philip wrote:

There is a question we should ask about everything we do in our lives... From who did we or from where did we learn this? Where did we learn to evangelize through movies? Did we learn from God or from ourselves or from the world?

I have learned that we are parrots, we pass along the wisdom of men and believe we are on the right path. Nothing compares to the power of Scripture. Our problem is that the flesh does not want to be crucified by it.

Thankyou Philip for preaching the Word above all else. You are truly an OT Saint living under the Abrahamic covenant.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2004/3/11 12:34Profile
seekinggod
Member



Joined: 2004/3/3
Posts: 54
Fond du Lac, WI

 Re: Concerns about The Passion

Quote:
"This evangelical enthusiasm for The Passion of the Christ may seem a little surprising



Not suprising to me. Most evangelicals:

1) Are used to the church and entertainment walking hand in hand

2) Fear evangelism, and look at this movie as the evangelism push that allows them to stay in their rut. Allow the movie to "sell" Christ, so they can continue to stagnate. 10 Shekels anyone?


_________________
Steve

 2004/3/11 15:20Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy