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tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: CARNAL Christians

This thread has brought tears to my eyes. Thank you all for your honesty. I will never, while on this Earth, understand all the things of the Bible, but I know it is a fight at times. I remember hearing a song by Derek Webb that says “welcome to the struggle” in it. How true.

God bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/1/21 17:24Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

Quote:
how is it possible to live in rebellion to God and in the same time be saved?



what do you think of the corithians?

theres mention here going thru trials. trials and falling into sin is different. God allows trials to come our way that we would see our need to be more dependent on Him and make us more genuine in the Lord (2 cor.1:9, 1 peter4:12-13)

if we fall into habitual sin that is our fault, we choose to do so, the Lord did not bring that upon us, but He did give us promises to hold onto, knowing that nothing is too hard for God in helping us to overcome.

i believe that a genuine christian can fall back to habitual sin just like the corithians, galations, and laodiceans and in need to cry out for repentance again just like the corithians, galations, and laodiceans.


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Lisa

 2007/1/21 17:31Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the value of failures

I immensely dislike this expression “carnal Christian”. We toss it around like a quick diagnosis for those who are not shiny and clean. Really we are just playing spiritual doctor on others, without a clue what we are talking about. Let’s not make boxes to fit people into.

Remember, it is when we are looking and feeling the finest spiritually, that we ourselves may be “carnal” - that is dependent on our own righteousness. On the other hand, when we are fallen badly, we are most aware of our wretchedness. We are closest to the ground, and that is a move towards Jesus.

Christians tend to have an aversion to failure. They hate anything that is messy and unwhitewashed. They descend like vultures on those who are messing up, those who toss out a cuss word, have a temper tantrum, smoke a cigarette. They wag their fingers. They shame. They scold. They toss Bible verses. But they fail to see that God himself has been sifting the sinner, refining his faith, and making it stronger.

Neil, Chanin, and really all of us: Each failure is not necessarily a step backwards, but a step forward! Whenever a temptation or trial causes another layer of righteousness to fall away, we behave wretchedly. How can we not! The temptation came when we didn’t expect it. Think of Peter when he denied Christ. Peter was being sifted, an important process in the preparation of his future ministry as an apostle. Jesus did not scold him, but prayed for his faith!

God could protect us from falling if he wanted. But that doesn’t mature us. Our failures are necessary, and if we can accept that in each other, then we can participate in God’s program rather than work against it.

We have many Biblical examples of spiritual heroes whose failings were the very thing that brought good. Ex the sin of Joseph’s brothers turned out for their good. Just look at the beautiful psalmody that proceeded from David after his failure. What about Moses’ intercessions, Abraham’s supreme sacrifice, etc.

From No Rival Love: “In each successive test, God required Abraham to make a further break with some natural desire of his own will.” by D. Small


Diane


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Diane

 2007/1/21 20:33Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I wonder about this as well. I think too about how there have been times where I have so grieved my Lord by a sinful action, or word spoken. Then I think about how I deal with the conviction that comes.
I think this word conviction is what separates the Christian from the non Christian. I know that before I called Christ Lord, and was born into the Kingdom, there was no conviction for much of what I cannot even think of doing now. Why? Because His seed is in me.
I wrestle to understand just how sanctified a person may be this side of eternity, I truly believe there is a work of God's Spirit that enables a person to be holy in thought, action, and deed. Sadly though I have yet to come to this point.
Then again I think of that passage in Hebrews where it says, "whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth." I wonder why would He need to chasten His child if there was nothing left that was unlike Himself, as it goes on to say that the chastisement is to make us partakers of His holiness.
For me I would be concerned if I could sin without conviction, as the very conviction drives me to His feet, and helps me to understand just how much grace I am in need of, and how dangerous it is when I think I have everything together.
I am in no way condoning sinful behaviour from Christians, but I have yet to meet anyone who in a practical and real sense with all honesty can say they do not sin at all.
Let's not turn this into a duel of scripture, but rather maybe those among us who have gone into the blessing could share some of their experiences prior to and after the blessing, then we who lag behind could be strengthened to "catch up" by His grace.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/1/21 20:46Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I also struggled with smoking for almost a year after coming to Christ.
But a brother lovingly asked me to think about how it would look to people around me, how it might cause more harm than good to those I was sharing with etc., and by the sheer mercy and grace of God was I able to stop.
Every so often out of nowhere a desire comes to smoke, and it is a battle not to, but the Spirit mortifies the deed, and I go on.
Neil you will be in my prayers


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patrick heaviside

 2007/1/21 20:52Profile
Mattie
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Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

Paul in almost every single letter warns churches of the possibility to stray from truth and to disobey. Christians are capable of straying - plain and simple.

We have to settle the issue that when a Christian is saved he has the Holy Ghost but also flesh attached to him that must be overpowered each day by the indwelling Life. Some have the idea that when we are saved we no longer have a flesh anymore. This is contrary to the Bible. Day by day we must fully depend on God to live this life. No confidence in the flesh whatsoever

 2007/1/21 21:21Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

For the Christian, this flesh has been quickened so when it is planted in the ground as a corn of wheat it will bring forth the fruit of the owner of the field it is planted in, to bring forth fruit for the intended Owner, which is the Seed of Christ sown by The Sower our Father, God.

The flesh on this earth can never be perfect, but it can be controlled by or crucifying it daily and carrying the Cross that saves us, that is The Cross of Christ. Where is the Cross carried? It is carried in the Spirit of Christ that has been born again in our hearts and by Christ baptizing us into the Holy Spirit. Then His burden is light.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/1/22 3:25Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re: CARNAL Christians

Sister Kristy asked:

Quote:
Does anybody here believe in the "Carnal Christian" idea which means that somebody can be habitually living in sin and yet be saved?



Paul exhorts the Corinthians...

1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

Paul is teaching that "babes in Christ" have not yet learned to listen to the Spirit. Paul points to the fact that most of the Corinthians still look to men for direction. He is not necessarily teaching that the christian who remains subject to the carnal mind is "habitually living in sin" but that these "babes in Christ" have not yet come to rely on the Spirit for their daily sustenance.

Paul teaches that these christians have not yet come to understand the Spiritual life.

How many of us claim we are under Calvin, Arminius, Luther, Wesley, or Augustine? There is very little other men can do to ween other believers from their dependence upon their own carnal mind. We must all come to be dependent upon the Spirit for our daily living water.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/1/22 3:37Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

In terms of overcoming sin...

My one friend smoked for many years, and then he came to the Lord. He experienced a powerful conversion under the AOG denomination. He testified that God also healed him of smoking and talked about how the Holy Spirit cleaned his lungs out in a moments time. He tried to smoke two days later and became sick. For about a year he went without smoking. Then came a time of stress where he started smoking again.

This man still loves the Lord greatly...

The second friend also had a powerful conversion. He was a punk rocker doing speed and alcohol. The day of his conversion he no longer had a desire for anything that would alter his physological condition. He no longer wanted to get high. Ten years later this is still true. Yet my friend struggles in different areas of his life that were not immediately transformed by our Savior.

This man still loves his Lord...

I myself have grown over the last ten years...but the last three have been like Peter when he got out of the boat to meet Jesus who was walking on water. As the seas began to boil around Peter...he took his eyes off of Jesus and began to sink into the water...

This section of Scripture was given to me a week before the last 3 years started...I thought I knew what it was about back then...yet I am still learning that lesson...

Just some thoughts about how some believers are learning day by day...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/1/22 3:53Profile
myfirstLove
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Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

Galatians 5:21

21 envy, murders,[a] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who [b]practice[/b] such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 3:3
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

James 3:16
For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

some verses to help us to see what sin is. like for example, a lot of people would not think that practicing sin like envy is a terrible thing (man's opinion), but by scripture it is.

thru God we are able to overcome these things, where we are not in daily practice of it. not that pride does not show up here and there, but it should not be a daily practice if we say we are truly abiding in God.

for example, some christians think that you can't get rid of jelousy. that is part of you. i believe that is wrong. i use to be full of jelousy. jelousy is so evil, its like hate, and hate is like murder. a person can not abide in the Lord if they are in practice of jelousy all the time. God broke me from this, now i can say that i do not have this sin. it is not a PRACTICE in my life, but it may rise up a little at times, and thats when i quickly go to Jesus and confess before Him and he cleanses me from it before it gets to a habit (1 john 1:9), and so i go on and walk clean before Him again.

so the corithians truly fell into sin, but they repented later.


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Lisa

 2007/1/22 10:53Profile





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