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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

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 Re:

There are three manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

1."with" you

2."In" you

3."upon" you

The Christian, intimate with the Father or proceeding in that direction will have knowledge, that says "Trust Me", for all three.

There will be evidence of at least two in the general life of a follower. The third one is for God to exercise at His pleasure/purpose.


Orm

 2007/1/22 11:33
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 Re:

Quote:
While the phrase baptism of the Holy Spirit may not be in the bible the below scripture says that Jesus baptises with the Holy Ghost. I see this meaning the same thing.While the phrase baptism of the Holy Spirit may not be in the bible the below scripture says that Jesus baptises with the Holy Ghost. I see this meaning the same thing.


Many people do not see the difference but there is a grammatical difference between a genetive of possession and the medium into which something is baptised.

If I say this is the bible of Ron I do not mean that Ron is in the bible. They are fundamentally different concepts and important ones. The agent who baptises men and women is Jesus Christ. It is his prerogative and his baptism. The medium into which he baptises is the Holy Spirit. This is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, this is the baptism of Jesus Christ.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/22 17:51Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Because your going to get bombarded with so many ideas that it's only going to gender confusion.

The baptism into the holy Spirit is very real, whatever the bible tells you regarding the subject, SEEK IT. That is, everyday ask the LORD for this baptism, continually asking Him. He wants to give it, by your SEEKING He is preparing your vessel to receive it, so don't be discouraged.


Whatever you do, do NOT seek it! Seek Him!


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/22 17:54Profile
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 Re:

It is a him. Baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. These three are one.


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KLC

 2007/1/22 18:23Profile
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Joined: 2006/11/7
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 Re:

Quote:

There will be evidence of at least two in the general life of a follower. The third one is for God to exercise at His pleasure/purpose.

However the scripturs say that He will give it to those who ask:


[color=6600FF]Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?[/color]


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KLC

 2007/1/22 18:28Profile









 Re:

Then where do you place this in your thinking:

Matthew 3:11 (KJV)
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you *with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Luke 3:16 (KJV)
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you *with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

NASB-U
*The Gr here can be translated in, with or by



 2007/1/22 18:32









 Re:

Quote:

Goldminer wrote:
Quote:

There will be evidence of at least two in the general life of a follower. The third one is for God to exercise at His pleasure/purpose.

However the scripturs say that He will give it to those who ask:


[color=6600FF]Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?[/color]



Indeed.

James 1:5-6 (KJV)
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. [6] But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Luke 11:9 (Amplified Bible)

So I say to you, Ask and keep on asking and it shall be given you; seek and keep on seeking and you shall find; knock and keep on knocking and the door shall be opened to you.

But some will ask, "How come have to ask, I thought we got it all when we got saved?"


 2007/1/22 18:38
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Joined: 2006/11/7
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 Re:

I see no separation between the Godhead:


Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?


I won't pretend to understand the trinity this side of heaven, with no direct revelation from God about it. But I feel that as Jesus said I only do what the Father is doing it is because they are one. How to explain that? Way more skillfull people than I have tried and still it's a mystery. I think maybe God likes a mystery because if we could figure it all out we would be Him.




1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.




I don't think I need to understand exactly how I was baptised to know that I was. All I can say is thank you for the awesome gift of the Holy Spirit and thank you Holy Spirit for batising me. Whether to thank the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit matters little to me. I'll just thank all three because they aren't jealous of each other and won't be offended by my ignorance. They know my frame and that I'm made from dust. They know that I know in part and forgive my ignorance. I do study to show myself approved, in fact for over three decades I have been dilligently reading my word. I have even read it in every version I can, however I just can't get into the message bible.

Anyway I have rambled on enough. I sure don't have all the answers, but I do have "The Answer".



Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.



I don't live in fear of getting it wrong because He loves me enough to keep me on the right path.



Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This [is] the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Psa 37:23 The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.




The quickening of the Holy Spirit has caused a check in my heart when something is presented to me that is off. I am not saying that I am infallible, but He is. If my desire is to have all He wants to give and to learn all He wants me to learn then He will keep my feet from slipping.



Psa 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: [wilt] not [thou deliver] my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?



It seems that all this trying to figure it out to the minutest degree is wearying. When we can just rest in the love of God that delights to give us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We don't need to fear He will give us serpent. This is His heart for us:




Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.




I have heard it said of many foreign nations that have heard the gospel for the first time are seeing all the gifts of the spirit manifest. They read what the word says and believe it as little child would and they see the signs follow because they don't doubt they will follow. Their faith is childlike and Jesus praises this kind of faith.

A person could hash over this issue until they are blue in the face and everybody will view it differently, but the fact is if we become like little children we can partake of this wonderful gift.

I once had a conversation with my brother who was just put in prison for drugs. He was quoting scripture to me. He studied the scriptures all the time so he could get into debates about it. It was like a game to him.

I felt that God dropped something into my spirit to speak to him.

I told him he could study how to make bread, the ingredients, the process, he could know every kind of bread possible, even the smell, but if he didn't eat the bread he would still starve to death.

Knowing is not enough, we must be partakers. We must eat His flesh and drink His blood and receive His fullness or we will be lacking all He wants to give us. That is the real issue.





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KLC

 2007/1/22 19:28Profile
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 Re:

Dear Ormly,

The first part of the quote is not from me, this part:

There will be evidence of at least two in the general life of a follower. The third one is for God to exercise at His pleasure/purpose.

I can only answer you question by saying I receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit, or what ever name you choose to call it, after my my initial conversion. My thoughts on that is that God can only fill what is empty. At times we may not be fully yielded to recieve, maybe from lack of knowledge or holding back a portion. I don't really know the answer. I only know my experience was latter than my salvation day.


_________________
KLC

 2007/1/22 19:35Profile









 Re:

Permit me to once again post this paper. I believe it to be the clearest explanation of the Baptism I have ever read:


JESUS CHRIST, THE BAPTIZER


“THERE WAS A MAN SENT FROM GOD, whose name was John. .. . The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.... And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

“And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

“And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God” (John 1:6, 29, 32—34).

Every one of the four Gospels spells out John’s declaration, “I indeed baptize you with water; he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.” When the Pharisees asked, “Why baptizeth thou?” he replied, “That he should be made manifest.. . therefore I am come baptizing with water” (John 1: 25, 31). Furthermore, John assured them that he was sent to baptize with water (vs. 33). It was his ministry. This fact was recognized to such an extent that he became known as “John the Baptist.”

I doubt whether one could find a ten-year-old in Christendom that has not yet learned about John the Baptist. All through the ages, generation after generation, men have learned of this great prophet, but they know him by what he did and not by what he said or prophesied. Yet we know that he was both prophet and baptizer.

In recent times I have been astonished to find that very few Christians have ever heard that Christ is the baptizer in the Holy Ghost. They know Him as the Lamb of God, as Saviour; and as the Son of God, our Lord; but they are unfamiliar with the fact that He was announced to the world as the One to whom God gave the ministry of baptizing with the Holy Ghost.

Jesus Christ is both Saviour and Baptizer. We have no doubt that He is as much the Saviour today as when He died on Calvary as the Lamb of God. Even so, He is still the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit as much as He was when He commenced this ministry on the Day of Pentecost, for He is the “same, yesterday, today and forever.”

I have just traveled in seven countries and addressed over 300 ministers belonging to seven of the major classical Protestant churches. During these three months I have read a great variety of ecclesiastical writings, touching upon almost every subject and event between Easter and Pentecost. From Ascension to Pentecost. I have listened to many radio talks in several languages. Not once did I hear a minister, see in a paper, or hear over the radio any mention that Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit. In conversations many that questioned me or spoke to me expressed some surprise at my strong emphasis upon the message that Christ is the Baptizer in the Spirit. I have heard much about the work of the Spirit, about receiving the Spirit, and even about the coming of the Spirit, but nothing is ever said about being baptized with the Spirit.

The first intimation in history that a baptism with the Spirit was a possible event in the life of a human being came from John the Baptist. However, he did not announce the experience but rather the one who gave such an experience. He announced that the Baptizer was coming. He clearly states that God had told him that Christ would be the Baptizer with the Holy Ghost. He also assures us that the image for this act of Christ was his own act of baptizing in the river. From the very beginning, therefore, all John’s converts fully expected an experience that would be as overwhelming as their baptism in the river. These converts had an encounter with the baptizer and not with water or even the river. What they were to expect was an encounter with the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and not with the Spirit or with the work of the Spirit in their lives.

For every baptism there must be an agent to baptize, and an element with or into which to baptize, and finally a candidate to be baptized. Such a candidate must present himself and ask for baptism. Then there must be a total and complete surrender to the baptizer and not to the element in which he baptizes. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is an encounter with Christ, the Baptizer. The candidates are those who have already had an encounter with Him as the Lamb of God, the Saviour, who took away all their sin and made them worthy temples of the Holy Spirit.

The disciples who left John and followed Christ that He might baptize them with the Holy Spirit discovered that He was full of the Spirit. They saw His miracles to prove it and heard His word to confirm it. Then He gave them power and authority to cast out devils and heal the sick, but that was not the baptism in the Spirit that they expected. Finally they saw Him weak and as a Lamb led to the slaughter, and He opened not His mouth. He died on the cross and was laid in the tomb, and no one had been baptized in the Spirit. What about John’s prophecy? Was it all mythical or mystical?

In the evening of that first Easter day of Resurrection, He suddenly and unexpectedly appeared in their midst. Then He breathed on them and said, ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” This was after He had explained, “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.” But how did His Father send Him? First He came, born of the Spirit (Luke 1:35), and then He was endued with the Spirit (Luke 4: 1) to commence His earthly ministry. So here the disciples became the very first members of a new body, the church. He breathed eternal life into them. Calvary, the all-effective altar of God, had dealt with the sin question, and those who were dead in trespasses and sin now could receive the life-giving, regenerating Holy Spirit. This was for them the occasion where they were baptized into one body by the Spirit (I Cor.12:13).

But John said that God had said that Jesus would baptize with the Spirit, not that He would give the Spirit. I wonder how these disciples thought and felt about all these strange things? However, a few weeks later Jesus again spoke to the same men to whom He had said, “Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” Now He confirms John’s message. He says to them, “John truly baptized with water: but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence” (Acts 1: 5). Here Christ accepts and confirms the same image that God had given to John, a baptism in water and a baptism in the Holy Spirit—indeed a river baptism, but the river of life must first begin to flow upon earth.

Several predictions were confirmed on the Day of Pentecost. The Father gave the promised Holy Ghost, who was heard as wind and seen as fire. Jesus began to baptize in the Spirit and fire. The immediate consequence of this baptism was that the candidates began to speak with other tongues as Jesus had promised (Mark 16: 17). Then the Holy Spirit began to convict of sin, righteousness and judgment as Peter preached to the multitude (John 16:8). But the record says, “They were all filled {overflowed] with the Holy Ghost, and [of which was] they began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Acts2:4).

It seems that from this very day onward much more emphasis was given to the experience of the disciples than to the act of Jesus the Baptizer, and the whole controversy began to revolve around glossolalia—speaking with other tongues—which was the very simple consequence of this baptism in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit was the gift and tongues was the consequence. These tongues were a manifestation of the Holy Spirit and not a manifestation of the ecstasy of the human spirit. Speaking in tongues by the Holy Spirit or, as Paul puts it, “Praying with the Spirit,” is an act of the Holy Spirit upon the human spirit which transcends the understanding (I Cor.14: 14, 15).

Thus it seems clear that on the day of Pentecost the spirit of the disciples was baptized into the Holy Spirit and their bodies were filled with the Holy Spirit—overflowed with the Holy Spirit. The fact that they commenced to speak “with the Spirit” was proof of this overflowing.

In our day many pray for an infilling, an experience, instead of seeking the Baptizer. They ask the Holy Spirit to fill them when they should be asking Christ to baptize them. The baptism will produce the filling. This filling of the body by the baptism of the human spirit into the Holy Spirit produces an overflowing (see John 7:38) which causes the vocal organs to go into action and speak a language that is unknown to the candidate. He may be fully aware of what he is doing but does not know what he is saying (I Cor.14:14).

On the day of Pentecost God gave the Holy Spirit and Christ then baptized His followers into the Spirit, and they began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance (Acts 2:4). About 10 years later, according to Acts 10:44—46, when the Apostle Peter dared to preach to the Gentiles for the first time (Acts 11:19), these same Gentiles received exactly the same experience that the apostles and the disciples of Christ had on the day of Pentecost. The record says, “And they of the circumcision [Jews] were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God” (Acts 10:46). The Jewish Christians in Jerusalem objected to all this. (Acts 11:2). Then Peter in his defense said, “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 11: 15, 16). In other words, it was the same Baptizer who baptized into the same element, with the same consequences. The consequences were what convinced the Jewish Christians that the experience of the Gentiles was valid, for they heard them speak with tongues
(Acts 10:46).

From this record it is quite clear that during the first decade Peter and the church in Jerusalem believed that Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and that “speaking with tongues” was the immediate consequence or confirmation of this baptism. During this last decade in our time the Christian world has become more conscious of the Holy Spirit and many are reaching out for His power and a charismatic ministry. However, it seems to me that unless the church once again lifts up Christ as the Baptizer, many will seek the blessing from the Holy Spirit and fail to find it because He will always honor Christ.

To get the baptism in the Spirit everyone must seek an encounter with the Baptizer, who began this ministry on the day of Pentecost when He truly came back in the Spirit to baptize His disciples. He is the same, yesterday, today and forever (Heb.13:8).

David Duplessis .......[Mr. Pentecost]



 2007/1/22 19:47





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