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 Re: What is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Branded4Him

I would like to offer some advice on this subject.

FORSAKE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK!!

Because your going to get bombarded with so many ideas that it's only going to gender confusion.

The baptism into the holy Spirit is very real, whatever the bible tells you regarding the subject, SEEK IT. That is, everyday ask the LORD for this baptism, continually asking Him. He wants to give it, by your SEEKING He is preparing your vessel to receive it, so don't be discouraged.

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

And if you go to a church that doesn't believe in it, don't tell them, they'll run you down, they'd rather you fall into sin then to fall head over heels in love with Jesus Christ. Get your mind off of tongues or any other manifestation that comes to mind. These thing will come, but it's not important that you know them or to mediate on them. Mediate on the LORD Jesus Christ for He is the baptizer.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

 2007/1/20 17:12
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Logic wrote: "There is, however, a "growing in grace" that the baptism of the Spirit begins."

We have the whole bucked of Grace or our salvation would be partial and not sure. Our Salvation is Sure by the Christ that is in us and Grace is Sure and we must renew our minds to the Mind of Christ, thus growing in mind not Grace. Grace is full and From God, not measure by what man does.

2Corinth 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


1 Corinthians 13:9-13 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

He is come; 1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Now we know; 1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Is He come In your flesh, the temple? 2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The Great Mystery of Paul; "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Who then is our sanctification, by which we are judged in justification by who?

1Corinth 3:13,15 the work of each will be revealed; for the Day will make it known, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire will prove the work of each, what sort it is.
15: If the work of anyone shall be consumed, he shall suffer loss; but he will be saved, but so as through fire.

With Christ in the Fire we will not be burned. A perfect picture of Christ in the believer is;

Daniel 3:25-27 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire. And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

How can the Christ in you be burned? Not Possible. Sanctified by Him that is in you. Not with you. We are one in Christ and we will see Him as He is on resurrection morning for we will be like Him. Sanctified son's of God, by the Son in us.

This is what the Holy Spirit came to teach us.
John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

These are the mystery revealed to Paul and taught to us by the Holy Spirit; John 16:8-11 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

But He will come in the new birthing of His Seed in the believer by the Father of us all. John 14:18-19 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

If we live in the Old, the New can never come.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him (God the Father) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

In The Holy Spirit Teacher Parakletos: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/1/20 17:13Profile









 Re: What is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

JESUS CHRIST, THE BAPTIZER


“THERE WAS A MAN SENT FROM GOD, whose name was John. .. . The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.... And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

“And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

“And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God” (John 1:6, 29, 32—34).

Every one of the four Gospels spells out John’s declaration, “I indeed baptize you with water; he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.” When the Pharisees asked, “Why baptizeth thou?” he replied, “That he should be made manifest.. . therefore I am come baptizing with water” (John 1: 25, 31). Furthermore, John assured them that he was sent to baptize with water (vs. 33). It was his ministry. This fact was recognized to such an extent that he became known as “John the Baptist.”

I doubt whether one could find a ten-year-old in Christendom that has not yet learned about John the Baptist. All through the ages, generation after generation, men have learned of this great prophet, but they know him by what he did and not by what he said or prophesied. Yet we know that he was both prophet and baptizer.

In recent times I have been astonished to find that very few Christians have ever heard that Christ is the baptizer in the Holy Ghost. They know Him as the Lamb of God, as Saviour; and as the Son of God, our Lord; but they are unfamiliar with the fact that He was announced to the world as the One to whom God gave the ministry of baptizing with the Holy Ghost.

Jesus Christ is both Saviour and Baptizer. We have no doubt that He is as much the Saviour today as when He died on Calvary as the Lamb of God. Even so, He is still the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit as much as He was when He commenced this ministry on the Day of Pentecost, for He is the “same, yesterday, today and forever.”

I have just traveled in seven countries and addressed over 300 ministers belonging to seven of the major classical Protestant churches. During these three months I have read a great variety of ecclesiastical writings, touching upon almost every subject and event between Easter and Pentecost. From Ascension to Pentecost. I have listened to many radio talks in several languages. Not once did I hear a minister, see in a paper, or hear over the radio any mention that Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit. In conversations many that questioned me or spoke to me expressed some surprise at my strong emphasis upon the message that Christ is the Baptizer in the Spirit. I have heard much about the work of the Spirit, about receiving the Spirit, and even about the coming of the Spirit, but nothing is ever said about being baptized with the Spirit.

The first intimation in history that a baptism with the Spirit was a possible event in the life of a human being came from John the Baptist. However, he did not announce the experience but rather the one who gave such an experience. He announced that the Baptizer was coming. He clearly states that God had told him that Christ would be the Baptizer with the Holy Ghost. He also assures us that the image for this act of Christ was his own act of baptizing in the river. From the very beginning, therefore, all John’s converts fully expected an experience that would be as overwhelming as their baptism in the river. These converts had an encounter with the baptizer and not with water or even the river. What they were to expect was an encounter with the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and not with the Spirit or with the work of the Spirit in their lives.

For every baptism there must be an agent to baptize, and an element with or into which to baptize, and finally a candidate to be baptized. Such a candidate must present himself and ask for baptism. Then there must be a total and complete surrender to the baptizer and not to the element in which he baptizes. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is an encounter with Christ, the Baptizer. The candidates are those who have already had an encounter with Him as the Lamb of God, the Saviour, who took away all their sin and made them worthy temples of the Holy Spirit.

The disciples who left John and followed Christ that He might baptize them with the Holy Spirit discovered that He was full of the Spirit. They saw His miracles to prove it and heard His word to confirm it. Then He gave them power and authority to cast out devils and heal the sick, but that was not the baptism in the Spirit that they expected. Finally they saw Him weak and as a Lamb led to the slaughter, and He opened not His mouth. He died on the cross and was laid in the tomb, and no one had been baptized in the Spirit. What about John’s prophecy? Was it all mythical or mystical?

In the evening of that first Easter day of Resurrection, He suddenly and unexpectedly appeared in their midst. Then He breathed on them and said, ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” This was after He had explained, “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.” But how did His Father send Him? First He came, born of the Spirit (Luke 1:35), and then He was endued with the Spirit (Luke 4: 1) to commence His earthly ministry. So here the disciples became the very first members of a new body, the church. He breathed eternal life into them. Calvary, the all-effective altar of God, had dealt with the sin question, and those who were dead in trespasses and sin now could receive the life-giving, regenerating Holy Spirit. This was for them the occasion where they were baptized into one body by the Spirit (I Cor.12:13).

But John said that God had said that Jesus would baptize with the Spirit, not that He would give the Spirit. I wonder how these disciples thought and felt about all these strange things? However, a few weeks later Jesus again spoke to the same men to whom He had said, “Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” Now He confirms John’s message. He says to them, “John truly baptized with water: but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence” (Acts 1: 5). Here Christ accepts and confirms the same image that God had given to John, a baptism in water and a baptism in the Holy Spirit—indeed a river baptism, but the river of life must first begin to flow upon earth.

Several predictions were confirmed on the Day of Pentecost. The Father gave the promised Holy Ghost, who was heard as wind and seen as fire. Jesus began to baptize in the Spirit and fire. The immediate consequence of this baptism was that the candidates began to speak with other tongues as Jesus had promised (Mark 16: 17). Then the Holy Spirit began to convict of sin, righteousness and judgment as Peter preached to the multitude (John 16:8). But the record says, “They were all filled {overflowed] with the Holy Ghost, and [of which was] they began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Acts2:4).

It seems that from this very day onward much more emphasis was given to the experience of the disciples than to the act of Jesus the Baptizer, and the whole controversy began to revolve around glossolalia—speaking with other tongues—which was the very simple consequence of this baptism in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit was the gift and tongues was the consequence. These tongues were a manifestation of the Holy Spirit and not a manifestation of the ecstasy of the human spirit. Speaking in tongues by the Holy Spirit or, as Paul puts it, “Praying with the Spirit,” is an act of the Holy Spirit upon the human spirit which transcends the understanding (I Cor.14: 14, 15).

Thus it seems clear that on the day of Pentecost the spirit of the disciples was baptized into the Holy Spirit and their bodies were filled with the Holy Spirit—overflowed with the Holy Spirit. The fact that they commenced to speak “with the Spirit” was proof of this overflowing.

In our day many pray for an infilling, an experience, instead of seeking the Baptizer. They ask the Holy Spirit to fill them when they should be asking Christ to baptize them. The baptism will produce the filling. This filling of the body by the baptism of the human spirit into the Holy Spirit produces an overflowing (see John 7:38) which causes the vocal organs to go into action and speak a language that is unknown to the candidate. He may be fully aware of what he is doing but does not know what he is saying (I Cor.14:14).

On the day of Pentecost God gave the Holy Spirit and Christ then baptized His followers into the Spirit, and they began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance (Acts 2:4). About 10 years later, according to Acts 10:44—46, when the Apostle Peter dared to preach to the Gentiles for the first time (Acts 11:19), these same Gentiles received exactly the same experience that the apostles and the disciples of Christ had on the day of Pentecost. The record says, “And they of the circumcision [Jews] were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God” (Acts 10:46). The Jewish Christians in Jerusalem objected to all this. (Acts 11:2). Then Peter in his defense said, “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 11: 15, 16). In other words, it was the same Baptizer who baptized into the same element, with the same consequences. The consequences were what convinced the Jewish Christians that the experience of the Gentiles was valid, for they heard them speak with tongues

(Acts
10:46).
From this record it is quite clear that during the first decade Peter and the church in Jerusalem believed that Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and that “speaking with tongues” was the immediate consequence or confirmation of this baptism. During this last decade in our time the Christian world has become more conscious of the Holy Spirit and many are reaching out for His power and a charismatic ministry. However, it seems to me that unless the church once again lifts up Christ as the Baptizer, many will seek the blessing from the Holy Spirit and fail to find it because He will always honor Christ.

To get the baptism in the Spirit everyone must seek an encounter with the Baptizer, who began this ministry on the day of Pentecost when He truly came back in the Spirit to baptize His disciples. He is the same, yesterday, today and forever (Heb.13:8).

David Duplessis .......[Mr. Pentecost]


 2007/1/20 18:23
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Logic wrote: "There is, however, a "growing in grace" that the baptism of the Spirit begins."

We have the whole bucked of Grace or our salvation would be partial and not sure. Our Salvation is Sure by the Christ that is in us and Grace is Sure and we must renew our minds to the Mind of Christ, thus growing in mind not Grace. Grace is full and From God, not measure by what man does.


Do you ever read in context? sheesh!
We don't grow in the grace of God, but in grace in general.

My point is this;
Are you perfect in character at the point of salvation?
No, you must grow in the graces of the christian standards.

You mentiond these verses:
2Corinth 3:18 & 1Corinth 13:12, To under stand these verses in [b]context[/b];

[b]2Corinth 3:18[/b] [color=990000]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.[/color]
This is telling us the process of sanctification, for as the "[color=990000]glory to glory[/color]" referes to this Mirror or Glass that reflect His Glory and Image, so are we to reflect His Glory and Image [u]as we grow from one degree to another in sanctification[/u] as the Psalms sais, [b]Psalm 84:7[/b] [color=990000]They go from strength to strength, being seen in Zion before God.[/color]

The term "as from the Lord Spirit." Tells us that this is the work of the Holy Spirit.

All this is a process untill the time of this verse:
[b]1Corinth 13:12[/b] [color=990000]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.[/color]
This verse takes it's reference in Heaven, for the "[color=990000]but then[/color]" referes to the time when we se Him face to face not as throught a dim glass.

I guess, I could have said that "we grow in glory" instead of "grow in grace" just so you would wouldn't think me a more of a heritic as you do.

 2007/1/20 19:04Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Logic is not a heretic. That is not for me to say or judge. I do believe that you believe that Abraham's salvation and the Christian's salvation is the same, to me that commingles Law and Grace and dilutes both. That does not make you a heretic, that only makes your understanding and my understanding different. My dear brother in Christ, is this a fair understanding of our differences?

I have one question: What is our only means of salvation since the Cross?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/1/20 20:27Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Compliments wrote:
I would like to offer some advice on this subject.

FORSAKE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK!!

Because your going to get bombarded with so many ideas that it's only going to gender confusion


[b]Proverbs 11:14[/b] [color=990000]In the absence of wise counsels the people fall, but safety is in abundance of counselors.[/color]

[b]Proverbs 15:22[/b] [color=990000]Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counselors they are established.[/color]

[b]Proverbs 24:6[/b] [color=990000]For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counselors there is safety.[/color]

why be in a forum if one is to ''FORSAKE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK''
If so, one would be only to give his own oppinion and then duck out.
Threre would be no conversation or comunication for "iron to sharpen iron"

I am sure that Branded4Him is able to take all that is said & to rightly divide the word of truth as we all do.

 2007/1/20 20:34Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
Logic is not a heretic. That is not for me to say or judge. I do believe that you believe that Abraham's salvation and the Christian's salvation is the same, to me that commingles Law and Grace and dilutes both.


[b]James 2:21-23[/b] [color=990000]Was not our father Abraham justified by works offering up his son Isaac on the altar?
[b]:22[/b] ou see that faith worked with his works; and out of the works the faith was made perfected.
[b]:23[/b] And the Scripture was fulfilled, saying, "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted for righteousness to him;" and he was called, Friend of God.[/color]
Abraham's faith was not from works of the law but works of faith which stems from Love.
Furthermore, it is through faith (even Abraham's faith) that we are saved.
Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
What is our only means of salvation since the Cross?


It isn't only since the Cross, but since the foundation of the world.
Just as Enoch was taken up because he was pleasing to God in that he believed, he was saved from Gods wrath, .
We are also saved by believing that He is, because it is impossible to please God without believing(Hebrews 11:5-6).
In other words, by [b]Faith[/b].

 2007/1/20 21:00Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

Here are three articles/pages on the subject:

http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/greatsoulwinners.html

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/wigglesworth/5f00.0930/5f00.0930.12.htm

http://www.dyingthief.com/The_Holy_Ghost_and_the_Revival_He_Brings.doc


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2007/1/21 23:39Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Christinyou wrote:
Logic is not a heretic. That is not for me to say or judge. I do believe that you believe that Abraham's salvation and the Christian's salvation is the same, to me that commingles Law and Grace and dilutes both.

I should have wrote; "to me that commingles"- Israel and the law with Grace and The Church, the body of Christ.

There is no Israel in the Church, the body of Christ. In fact there is no Gentile in the Body of Christ. There is only Born Again Christ-ones. There is now only a heavenly Israel of God, not the Israel of this earth. The Heavenly Israel, That being what pleases Him to be brought to this earth and all brothers and sisters in Christ will be living in the Light thereof. The light is the Father and His Christ. There is no light in the Israel of this earth or the Gentile Nations unless they are in Christ and Christ is Born Again in them.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/1/22 3:11Profile









 Re: Our natural mind cannot understand the Word.

Quote:
why be in a forum if one is to ''FORSAKE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK''


Because I know, and I also know by experince that there are those who would bring confusion regarding this blessing of the baptism of the holy Spirit. Confusion comes when you have one group saying that the baptism of the holy Spirit died out in the first century, you have other groups that say that we don't need it today, others say we do and the list goes on. Who needs this confusion? And why? There is no council in reasoning away the scripures, as many have done and continue to do so walking after their own lustful hearts.

Romans 8:7 Because the natural mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

When we use our NATURAL understanding in reasoning with the scriptures, cults, sects, and denominations are formed.

Again I plead, FORSAKE WHAT NATURAL MINDED MAN HAS TO SAY. Believe the Word and do it. If any man hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit is saying, and not listen to what the natural mind is saying.

 2007/1/22 10:53





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