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DJB
Member



Joined: 2006/12/13
Posts: 7


 Christian Rock Music

Christian rock music...
Before I came to know the Lord, I was playing music in secular rock bands. Music has always been an important part of my life, and I believe that the ability to play music is a God-given talent.

As a new Christian, I was excited when I discovered that there were many "Christian Rock" bands out there playing some really good music. So I began finding other Christian musicians and playing this new type of rock music.

As I have grown over the years as a Christian, I find myself re-evaluating my stance concerning Christian Rock music.

I have always thought this type of music was a great way to reach the youth, but in some ways I am now wondering if this Christian Rock is a way of saying ... "You can have God, and the world too!"

At the same time, I do not feel that God is against variety. I see endless variety in all of His creation. Everything is unique in many different ways. Every human face is different, every leaf on every tree is different, every snowflake is different, ... and this could go on forever...

So, my questions are, how do we determine what "style" of music is the "only" style that is pleasing to God? And how do we go about determining that? When I see that God has put variety in His creation, why would it be wrong to have variety in the styles of music that we use to honor God?

After saying all of this, I do hear some Christian rock music that just seems to have an "evil" sound to it. Deep growling vocals, grinding guitars, and ear splitting noise! I am not questioning this type of Christian music. I do know where I stand concerning this style of music.

A lot of Christians believe that the "old hymns" are the ONLY songs that we should play or listen to. Yet, we must remember that at one time, even those songs were "new" and "different".

I am against all of this "entertainment" that is sweeping through church today. And I believe that we need to be very careful when it comes to the things we get involved with. In no way would I ever want to play music only to entertain, but if I can play music that will cause people to take a look at where they stand with God, I think it's what God would have me to do.

I am continually seeking the will of God for my life, and I am trying to stop, and take a look at where music is to fit in my life. If anyone has advice, and scripture to help me in this, please let me know.

God bless,
D.J.


 2007/1/19 13:47Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Christian Rock Music

well where do we draw the line, i must say I'm coming to the place where i wont listened to so much music except hymns and music like that, not that everything else is evil , but surly the Africans when they play their music isn't evil, and so on in south america.... they don't sound like "western" Christian music, the problem is i believe that when many people in todays "easy believes" churches preach their soft messages and don't say to people that they must leave everything to follow him, they preach "your OK" messages, and say stuff like "why should only the devil" have all the great music. so when you get saved you don't even have to change what kind of music you listen to,

for myself i remember i was saved and born again, the next day i was sitting at my computer and the holy spirit was convicting me about my music on m computer, so i just deleted over 2000 songs, i listened to "rap" and so on, Ive heard rap music whit gospel messages in them, i don't condemn them or say its evil, its just for my personal taste i don't like the beat and the sound of the world any longer, i was born again...i don't want to go back. as for Christian rock.... to me that sounds like Christian beer..... they don't just go together, when i close my eyes and i see the saint of all the ages in front of the throne... and they are about to sing a song to his glory, i really don't think its going to be a Christian rock song, but thats just me.... either way i think its great you're thinking about these things and searching, id say you pray about it, God will lead you through brother, but be prepared to follow Christ even if you have to forsake your music style,

and if you haven't already you can find a great selection of music here on SI... not rock but still very great music


Christian


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 2007/1/19 14:12Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: Christian Rock Music

Dear D.J.,

I listen to all styles of christian music including some rock. My rule of thumb is does it appeal to my flesh or my spirit. Does it cause me to enter into worshipping my God or does it just cause my feet to dance.

I am always looking for worship music that lifts my heart up to God. If the music lifts Jesus up and causes me to forget my surroundings and focus on HIM then it is good no matter the style. However some music works this way for me better than others, this may just be personal preference.

That is my heart on the issue. Glorify God in all you do and you will do it right. Don't just look for a good sound, but a heart attitude that doesn't exalt sound, but God. Does it cause you to enter in.
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Psa 66:1 [[To the chief Musician, A Song [or] Psalm.]] Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands:


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Psa 81:1 [[To the chief Musician upon Gittith, [A Psalm] of Asaph.]] Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.


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Psa 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.


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Psa 95:2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.


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Psa 98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.


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Psa 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.


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Psa 100:1 [[A Psalm of praise.]] Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.

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[color=6633CC]Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; [/color]




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 2007/1/19 14:19Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re: Christian Rock Music

D.J.,

I will share with you something I shared in a previous post. I think a lot of it comes down to the heart issue of the musician/s. I find it ironic that people say that rock music, rap, metal, and other forms are "the world's music," but in reality God created the talent of those who sing in each genre. It just depends on those individuals or bands what they do with it. Can Christian musicians screw it up sometimes, sure, after all, they are human; they are fallen. Again, it comes back to the heart.

This might seem like a silly example, but are we not supposed to worship God wih our life? So, it's not just in singing, correct? How come we Christians don't judge and debate over the "worldly" carpenter and the Christian carpenter? After all, the work of their hands should bring glory to God, right? It is a form of worship. Sure, music is a bit more enticing then furniture, homes, and houseware, but there are many of us who buy the carpenter's products according to how appealing their workmanship is to our eyes. I know this example might seem a little lame and a stretch, but do we not forget that God is the creator of music? Do we not forget that he created us with unique talents and tastes? Why must one judge over the heart condition of a Christian's music. If we really think about our judgement, then I suppose we shouldn't listen to any form of "godly" music, because after all, those writers were all sinners, just like the rest of us! I think it's crazy that we judge so harshly, and yet, it is God who should do the judging. Anyways... here is a previous post of mine:

It is interesting the continual topic we have had for decades on what is worship (musically speaking) to our Lord. We have camps that say only Psalms are the proper method of worship, camps that say hymns are the only method, camps that say lyrics without music are the only method, and so on. I don't know if I have a particular camp, personally. I'm still trying to figure that out, I guess. I love hymns, but I also love modern worship songs, as well. What I find interesting with all the disagreements among the camps as to who is right or wrong, and who is the "true worshipper," is that music has always been progressive, stylistically, lyrically, and instrumentally (In Scripture, not all instruments were created on the spot. It took time, and experimentation, failure and success. The Greeks had a style. Hebrews had a style. Jews had a style. The Egyptians had a style. Every culture was different in their on respect). I wonder if we realize that even the music and worship in Scripture was considered "contemporary" and "new?"

If God finds the work of our hands to be worship to Him, can He not find the words of our mouth to also be worship to Him? Does God intend that the only true worship that comes out of our mouth to be that of Psalms and hymns, or can He be blessed by any form of worship that we utter from our mouth, that brings, glory, honor, and praise to Him, where it is due?

I love this Psalm:


Quote:
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Psalm 149
1 Praise the LORD.
Sing to the LORD a new song,
his praise in the assembly of the saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with tambourine and harp.

4 For the LORD takes delight in his people;
he crowns the humble with salvation.

5 Let the saints rejoice in this honor
and sing for joy on their beds.

6 May the praise of God be in their mouths
and a double-edged sword in their hands,

7 to inflict vengeance on the nations
and punishment on the peoples,

8 to bind their kings with fetters,
their nobles with shackles of iron,

9 to carry out the sentence written against them.
This is the glory of all his saints.
Praise the LORD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I also love this Psalm:
Quote:
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Psalm 150
1 Praise the LORD.
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.

2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.

3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,

4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
praise him with the strings and flute,

5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.

6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
Praise the LORD.

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Interesting isn't it? Back in the days of David, they were dancing, playing trumpets, clashing symbols, tambourines, and different stringed instruments. What's fascinating about this is that the "world" was playing these instruments and so were the followers of God. What's also fascinating, is that there were times of quiet, mellow music, but there were also times of "loud" music in worship to God, as well. Would you not consider the clashing of cymbols loud? Or even the trumpet, perhaps(especially considering that they weren't made like they are today)?

How about the singing on their bed? Wouldn't that be a little... "unorthodox?"

May we consider this, too?:

Psalm 148, says:

Quote:
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1 Praise the LORD. [a]
Praise the LORD from the heavens,
praise him in the heights above.

2 Praise him, all his angels,
praise him, all his heavenly hosts.

3 Praise him, sun and moon,
praise him, all you shining stars.

4 Praise him, you highest heavens
and you waters above the skies.

5 Let them praise the name of the LORD,
for he commanded and they were created.

6 He set them in place for ever and ever;
he gave a decree that will never pass away.

7 Praise the LORD from the earth,
you great sea creatures and all ocean depths,

8 lightning and hail, snow and clouds,
stormy winds that do his bidding,

9 you mountains and all hills,
fruit trees and all cedars,

10 wild animals and all cattle,
small creatures and flying birds,

11 kings of the earth and all nations,
you princes and all rulers on earth,

12 young men and maidens,
old men and children.

13 Let them praise the name of the LORD,
for his name alone is exalted;
his splendor is above the earth and the heavens.

14 He has raised up for his people a horn,
the praise of all his saints,
of Israel, the people close to his heart.
Praise the LORD.


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"Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars." My reflection of this Scripture would be that one of the reasons God created them was to shine, and do it brightly. So what are the sun, moon and stars going to do? They are going to shine their brightest.

"Praise the Lord...lightning and hail, snow and clouds, stormy winds that do his bidding,"

Lightning - bright, and fierce.
Hail - whether small or large, they fall hard
Stormy winds - loud, fierce, and very strong in nature.

Yet, God finds this all to be "Praiseworthy."

I find it interesting, the conflicts we all have if someone sings at the top of their lungs, bangs a drum with all their might, or worship and praise the Lord with what ever ability God created them to have.

I could only imagine if David were living today and him being bashed for his lyrical writing in today's culture. Do you know that he had to start from somewhere? David didn't just pick up a pen, or knife, or whatever he used to write with, and come up with the greatest song there ever was. He grew in his passion for lyrical writing. As he matured in his daily life and matured in his walk with the Lord, so did his writing, and his want to give God the glory the way he did. We are all very much the same. Sure, Jason Upton may not have the "greatest" of songs, but he is trying to ultimately get to a place of true worship.

We also have to remember that God created each of us uniquely. I wonder if there were reasons behind people creating new instruments throughout Scripture? Were they "bored" of the same old instrument?" Did they want to add more musically diverse flavor?" Did they not like the harp being played anymore, so they created the trumpet? They were given the unique gift and ability to create these fine instruments. Who gave them this talent? Was it not God? What did they do before instruments? Did they not just sing/say words? Were not some of God's people uniquely gifted to create poems, and songs in a unique fashion that others could not? Cannot an individual back then, or even now, worship God in a way that he knows how, and God be pleased by it? If David could play the harp, and God loved that, but I could not, does that make me a person who doesn't know how to truly worship?

Are we saying that true worship is only inspired by David, or any of the latter and current day hymn writers, or can God be worshipped, by His created, in the way that He created each and every one of them?

It's interesting that we say we should ONLY worship with the songs of "these certian individuals," without recognizing that they were individuals, all different and unique from one another. There was one commonality and that was that they loved the Lord. Could we not also, in our own individuality, worship the Lord with the gifts that He created us with, in a manner of worship that was pleasing to Him???

Again, Jason Upton is growing and maturing just like the rest of us. There will be individuals that aren't as far along in the Lord as Jason is that will be ministered to by Jason's maturing lyrics and find it to be a way of worshipping the Lord where they are at in their walk with Him.

After all, for those of us that are mature in our walks with Christ enough to understand where David was coming from as he battled on the physical fields of war and also the spiritual fields of war (when it came to the fighting of temptation, lust, and demonic activity), do we not find the Psalms to be a ministry to us in our times of distress, and triumph?

Are we saying that David is the ultimate "hero" of worship, or was he just like one of us - a sinner, and one who struggled with many of the same things we do? I wonder if David made mistakes as he wrote? Do you think he "erased" lines that he decided wouldn't fit, when he wrote things down? Do you think he maybe wrote a song when he was 10, but changed it around lyrically when he was maybe 15 and had matured in the Lord? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but all I'm trying to say is that he was an individual like the rest of us, and worshipped the Lord in a way he knew how. David himself even said to sing to the Lord a new song. In our worship, if all we sing are hymns, or David's psalms, and that is it, are we singing to the Lord a new song?

Just some long drawn out thoughts.


D.J., praise God for your talents and abilities! I would encourage you to listen to the heartbeat of the Lord, and follow His direction.

 2007/1/19 14:39Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re: Christian Rock Music

Another thing I would like to add, is that it really depends on the heart of the listener as far as his purchase of this music. It's not ungodly to have some entertainment in our Christian lives. Should God be first and foremost? Most certianly. However, entertainment is not inherintly (sp?) evil. It comes back to the condition of the heart.

Scripture to reflect upon:

Quote:

Ecclesiastes 9
A Common Destiny for All
[b]1 So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God's hands, but no man knows whether love or hate awaits him. 2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.
As it is with the good man,
so with the sinner;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them.
3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! [/b]

5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.

[b]7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun— all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. [/b]

11 I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.

12 Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come:
As fish are caught in a cruel net,
or birds are taken in a snare,
so men are trapped by evil times
that fall unexpectedly upon them.

Wisdom Better Than Folly
13 I also saw under the sun this example of wisdom that greatly impressed me: 14 There was once a small city with only a few people in it. And a powerful king came against it, surrounded it and built huge siegeworks against it. 15 Now there lived in that city a man poor but wise, and he saved the city by his wisdom. But nobody remembered that poor man. 16 So I said, "Wisdom is better than strength." But the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are no longer heeded.
17 The quiet words of the wise are more to be heeded than the shouts of a ruler of fools.

18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war,
but one sinner destroys much good.


 2007/1/19 14:53Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

BenBrockway wrote:
Another thing I would like to add, is that it really depends on the heart of the listener as far as his purchase of this music. It's not ungodly to have some entertainment in our Christian lives. Should God be first and foremost? Most certainly. However, entertainment is not inherintly (sp?) evil. It comes back to the condition of the heart.





well i say as Leonard Ravenhill, entertainment is the devils substitute for joy, the devil have filthy entertainment such as porn and other things, he also have entertainment that is "morally accepted" but still draws you away from Christ, they maybe look different come in different packages but does the same thing,
of course we should have fun and smile and be happy, but thats not your goal in life if you are a Christian, if you are a Christian the only reason you have for living is that God be glorified, anything else than that then you are not where God wants you to be,
i believe the devil don't have to trick you into some sexual immorality just to get you of road, if he can get you into collecting stamps instead of praying he has deceived you, its not so much how sinful and "wordily" the thing is, there have to be a clear line between those in the church and those outside, how we talk, how we spend our time, how we raise our children, how we spend our money, even the kind of music we listen to, and why we are listening to it as said above.

there is great "modern" worship music, and I'm not saying all is evil and wrong and bad, just we need to be careful and thoughtful of what we listens too, because there are much music, even "Christian music" that are in the flesh and "wordily", so we have to be watchful and not because i makes me feel good and therefore it is good, no thats dangerous.

i know Keith Daniel have some great teachings on this subject,


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/1/19 15:32Profile
DJB
Member



Joined: 2006/12/13
Posts: 7


 Re: Christian Rock Music

Thanks to all who have replied. Very Interesting points made. This does help me.

God bless,
D.J.

 2007/1/19 16:22Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

i recomend you watch this video prayerfully, i think i speak for many many multitudes of people that this sermon is life changing and i belive it helps in this area to better understand this issue.

Keith Daniel - Power of Prayer
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4224&commentView=itemComments


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 2007/1/19 16:54Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:

well i say as Leonard Ravenhill, entertainment is the devils substitute for joy, the devil have filthy entertainment such as porn and other things, he also have entertainment that is "moraly accepted" but still draws you away from christ, they maybe look different come in different packeges but does the same thing,
of course we should have fun and smile and be happy, but thats not your goal in life if you are a christian, if you are a christian the only reason you have for living is that God be glorified, anything else than that then you are not where God wants you to be,




I agree that a lot of entertainment is of satan (i.e. porn, clubs, ungodly music, etc., etc.), but not all entertainment is bad. After all, Christ himself enjoyed the festivals that the Jewish community partakes of.

Think about it another way: SEX. Sex, in the confines of marriage is an expression of love, it's bonding, but it is also fun. You can be entertained by sex in the confines of marriage. That isn't wrong. After all, God created it for those purposes.

I agree that it should never be our goal to "strive" for fun (as if it were the only reason to live), and let the fun be the end all and that's why I said that it matters the condition of the heart and placing God first and foremost.

:-D

 2007/1/19 17:04Profile









 Re: Christian Rock Music

Quote:
So, my questions are, how do we determine what "style" of music is the "only" style that is pleasing to God? And how do we go about determining that? When I see that God has put variety in His creation, why would it be wrong to have variety in the styles of music that we use to honor God?

Quote:
I am continually seeking the will of God for my life, and I am trying to stop, and take a look at where music is to fit in my life. If anyone has advice, and scripture to help me in this, please let me know.



Dear brother D.J.,
I've been pondering over your post...I have some information that I want to share on SI about Rock Music but I don't have it available yet on my computer.

But, one way to gain discernment in an area, especially the area of music, is to take a fast from it. I've heard the testimony of someone taking at least 30 days away from the music they had been listening to and when they came back to it they heard things in that music that that was not godly which they had never noticed before. So, taking a break from it and soaking ourselves in the Word of God will increase our discernment in areas.
Music really is a big area. It can be an idol, any kind of music can be an idol! Music has a tremendous impact on us human beings; so we do well to evaluate what we listen to according to the Word of God and the Holy Spirit.
There is a reason that godly men like Keith Daniel speak out against rock music (I am referring to the message on the Power of Prayer mentioned earlier by HmmHmm), and it's not just the argument 'that only the old hymns are good', there is something about the rock beat (defined as [i]'The “rock beat” is a dominant and repetitious offbeat which competes with the melody and distracts from the words of the song'[/i]) that compels men like brother Keith to speak out so strongly against it.
Well, I've gone on further than I intended to.:-o Perhaps the Lord will allow me to share more on this later.

Keep pressing on, brother!

 2007/1/22 20:11





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