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Nasher
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Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 TNIV

I've started this thread to discuss the new TNIV translation but would also like people's opinions on what a translation should be.


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Mark Nash

 2004/2/27 6:31Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
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Reading, UK

 Re: TNIV

Hi Nasher
Some points to consider can be found in an earlier thread. Which is the best translation


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Ron Bailey

 2004/2/27 8:11Profile
Agent001
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Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Contrast

I am going off topic here, but I couldn't resist. :)

The Chinese bible badly needs a new translation because many of the words and idioms are outdated.

Nevertheless, their spiritual appetite is phenomenal. Some saints in mainland China would memorize large chunks of scripture. I have seen some who could memorize the whole New Testament.

In contrast...

We have got so many English versions that even if we read through the Bible once a year, it will take years to finish these versions. (Plus, you've got Bibles for daddies, for mommies, for teenagers, for couples, for grannies, for executives...)

Now, how many could memorize the Epistle to Ephesians?


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Sam

 2004/2/27 9:39Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re: Contrast

Quote:
I've started this thread to discuss the new TNIV translation but would also like people's opinions on what a translation should be.


The Today's New International Version is an awful digression from the Original "NIV". I personally use NIV quite abit now.. And its saddening to see this new translation and the way they are going with it. One of the biggest features of the translation is that its gender neutral in almost all cases. Which means it doesn't have Men.. like "I want Men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer." It would rather say "I want People everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer."

That could work in some cases. But in many cases the [i]greek[/i] word used is specifically talking not just about a man but a husband. There are many other bad features of that bible. I will not be doing the upgrade. :-P


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/2/27 10:18Profile
Nasher
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Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

In defense of the TNIV that paricular verse from 1 Timothy 2:8 says:

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.


However it does translate verse 5 like this:

For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, Christ Jesus, himself human.


Does anyone know the greek word(s) for human being? ;-)


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Mark Nash

 2004/2/27 10:26Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
In defense of the TNIV that paricular verse from 1 Timothy 2:8 says:

[b]Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.[/b]


Thanks for the Correction Nasher, I will try and find better examples of what I am trying to prove. It shouldn't be that hard actually, cause from what I heard they do a pretty good job at that gender neutral stuff.

Quote:
Does anyone know the greek word(s) for human being?


G444
άνθρωπος
anthrōpos
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ώψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man

I might be intresting to take a look at the two other roots from where this word came from. And also where else 'anthrōpos' is used in the scriptures.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/2/27 10:34Profile
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Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Greg,

TNIV's "gender-neutral" translation does not mean all references to "man" or "men" are changed, as the example in 1 Timothy 2:8 has shown. Since the context clearly indicates that Paul is specifically referring to the masculine gender here, the word "men" is retained in TNIV.

The philosophy behind TNIV is that when words with a masculine bias are used in a context where both genders are implied, they are adapted with gender-inclusive language.

A fine example is the word "brethren" or "brothers", which in most instances, actually refers to "brothers and sisters". I have no problem with this kind of adaptations, because it does not change the intended meaning of the author. In fact, in this case, it [i]clarifies[/i] the intent.

I do not feel all updates in TNIV are necessary. Indeed, I am quite happy with the original NIV. Nevertheless, I do not feel TNIV deserves the kind of outrage that some Christians are showing.

I list here some verses for comparison. In all of them, I do not find the main meaning of the text altered. However, I do find some of the the adaptations rather cumbersome, which prompts me to ask, "Is this really necessary?"

-----------------------------------

Hebrews 12:7 (NIV)
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as [b]sons[/b]. For what [b]son[/b] is not disciplined by his [b]father[/b]?

Hebrews 12:7 (TNIV)
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as [b]children[/b]. For what [b]children[/b] is not disciplined by their [b]parents[/b]?

-----------------------------------

Luke 17:3 (NIV)
If your [b]brother[/b] sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

Luke 17:3 (TNIV)
If any [b]brother or sister[/b] sins against you, rebuke the offender; and if they repent, forgive them.

------------------------------------

Luke 9:26 (NIV)
If [b]anyone[/b] is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of [b]him[/b] when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 (TNIV)
If [b]any of you[/b] are ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of [b]you[/b] when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

-----------------------------------

1 John 4:20 (NIV)
If [b]anyone[/b] says, '[b]I[/b] love God,' yet hates [b]his[/b] brother, [b]he[/b] is a liar.

1 John 4:20 (TNIV)
If [b]we[/b] say [b]we[/b] love God yet hate a [b]fellow believer[/b], [b]we[/b] are liars.

------------------------------------

Two articles representing the two sides of this debate were featured in [url=http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/011/1.36.html]Christianity Today[/url]


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Sam

 2004/2/27 11:47Profile
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Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

I was curious to what everyone thought of the fact that the NIV has several verses removed.
It actually skips verses. For example Mark 11:26 and Acts 8:37 are totally removed from the NIV as are many other verses. These are just a couple of examples but I think there are over 40 verses deleted.

Just wondering if anyone thinks this is important or not when considering using it.

Mike


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Mike

 2004/2/27 12:33Profile
Agent001
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Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

The omissions are usually documented in the footnote of the NIV. These minor discreptancies reflect the choice of manuscripts made by the translation committee of the respective translations (e.g. compare NKJV and NIV).

I think these differences are minor, and should not be the major consideration in choosing a translation. Also, as a rule, comparing different translations is a good strategy in doing in-depth bible study (Of course, knowing the original languages will help immensely).


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Sam

 2004/3/1 14:08Profile





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