SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Blood of Christ

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
I appreciated this long quotation from T Austin Sparks. It is very easy for Christians to get swept into superstition. The 'blood of Christ' had no magical qualities in itself. It splashed on the soldiers who crucified him but did not change them thereby. The blood is of worth not it itself, but because of He who shed it. The 'blood of Christ' is Bible shorthand for 'the life of the Son poured out for us at Calvary'.




Stever responds:

There we have it- the expert to guide us where? Because I am a Christian believer that believes in the efficy (effectiveness) of Christ's Blood I am now branded SUPERSTITIOUS.

That is the way the "Spiritual" and "Supernatural" is dealt with here. We see no posts on "Spiritual Warfare" and how to apply the Blood of Christ that are allowed to progress. We see no posts here on how to "Bind and Loose", that are allowed to progress. No, that is too radical, too wacky, too supernatural, too "SUPERSTITIOUS" to be allowed. One of the "big guns" is sent in to kill it, and end it.

xxxxxxxxxxxx
Philologos posted:"The 'blood of Christ' had no magical qualities in itself. It splashed on the soldiers who crucified him but did not change them thereby. The blood is of worth not it itself, but because of He who shed it. The 'blood of Christ' is Bible shorthand for 'the life of the Son poured out for us at Calvary'."

Stever's response: My Bible tells me that Christ's blood was shed for all, but only APPLIES (works) for those that BELIEVE. The above statement that it did not change the Roman Soldiers is ridiculous on its face value. Unless they were believers, or came to belief later, it had no power for them. The same as today- Christ's shed blood is in heaven, applied to the mercy seat. Does it mean that all of mankind is saved? No, again it only applies to those that believe!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever Continues:

Yet the Bible has another view on this matter (than that of Philologos) of the efficy and power of THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. It starts at the beginning of the Bible,and continues to it's end-- that I will continue to post here:



"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; [b]but into heaven itself, now TO APPEAR IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD FOR US” (Hebrews 9:24). Jesus had to appear before God the Father with HIS shed blood.[/b] This is why He told Mary not to touch Him when He arose from the dead. “Jesus saith unto her, TOUCH ME NOT; FOR I AM NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God” (John 20:17). If Mary had touched Jesus, the blood sacrifice would have been tainted with corruption.

Jesus was heading towards heaven with the blood which needed to be applied to the mercy seat in Heaven. [b] “Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an HIGH PRIEST, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens” (Hebrews 8:1). Jesus is our High Priest! “Seeing then that we have a great HIGH PRIEST, that is passed into the heavens, JESUS THE SON OF GOD…” (Hebrews 4:14). Jesus’ tabernacle is in Heaven, not on earth, “A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Hebrews 8:2).[/b]

The mercy seat is located within this tabernacle in Heaven, just as it was in the Old Testament tabernacle. God had required for the Jewish High Priest to perform a ceremonial sacrifice once per year to atone for the sins of the Israelite people. The sacrifice pictured the coming Messiah Who would someday die on the cross for the sins of all people. This ceremonial event ceased when Christ died on the cross because the shadow of things to come was now obsolete, Jesus had fulfilled the prophecy. The Old Testament tabernacle, priests, Holy of Holies and mercy seat were all a shadow (or replica) of the tabernacle and in Heaven. [b] “Who serve unto the EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount” (Hebrews 5:8). The Old Testament tabernacle was a mirror image of the tabernacle in Heaven where Christ would someday make the atonement with His shed blood. Jesus used His own blood which was shed on the cross to atone for our sins. Christ’s blood was applied to the mercy seat in heaven.[/b] [b][color=990000]For anyone to teach that Jesus’ blood is not of importance is a wicked lie. For anyone to diminish the necessity of the blood atonement is an abomination unto God. [/color][/b]



[b]The Blood Applied in Heaven[/b]
Just as the Jewish High Priest was required to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year, likewise Christ had to enter into the Holy of Holies to appear before God. The Old Testament tabernacle was divided into three parts: the outer court, the inner court and then the Holy of Holies. Only certain priests who followed certain cleansing rituals were allowed into the inner court. Absolutely no one could enter into the Holy of Holies except a certain high priest once a year. Disobeying certain rules meant death. For example, if the high priest entered into the Holy of Holies without the lamb’s blood, God would have killed him. The blood atonement is sacred to God. This is serious business with our Lord. We must not make light of something that God holds dear. “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; [b]But WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST,[/b] as of a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1st Peter 1:18,19). Jesus is precious! Jesus’ blood is precious! What a Wonderful and Loving God that He would provide salvation to us through His own suffering and sacrifice, surely there is no greater love than this. Do you fail to see God’s love towards mankind? If so, it is only because of your prideful unbelief. Believe my friend and let God have His way with your heart.


[b]Jesus' Blood Washes Our Sins Away[/b]
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water” (Hebrews 10:19-22).[b]As believers, We are not to live with guilt over the past. We are to sprinkle our past sins and mistakes with the blood of Jesus. What this means is that you must realize in your mind that Christ’s blood has washed your sins away and they are gone forever. “...Unto him that loved us, and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD” (Revelation 1:5). [/b]

[b]Christ Atoned Once For ALL[/b]
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself” (Hebrews 7:27). This is important to understand, Jesus died and atoned for our sins ONCE. Jesus is not still hanging on a cross as Catholicism portray Him. The Catholic religion teaches that when you take the Lord’s Supper (Holy Eucharist) that the bread and juice literally become the blood and body of Jesus Christ when digested. They believe this is necessary for renewed spiritual life. This of course is as ridiculous as it is totally unscriptural. The bread and juice simply remind us of what Christ has done for us to redeem us unto Himself, no more. There is NO magic power in partaking of the Lord’s Supper. Jesus does NOT die every time. Catholicism teaches that Jesus dies over and over again. This is NOT what the Bible teaches. Jesus died ONCE, He shed His blood ONCE, He applied the Blood ONCE—it is finished. “So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many” (Hebrews 9:28). “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all” (Hebrews 10:10). Jesus did NOT stay on the cross, He did NOT remain in the grave, He arose triumphant over death and is alive forever more.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ, the Blood of Jesus is real, and remains in heaven and can be applied supernaturly by prayer. Of course, everything of God is supernatural and He has made it possible for believers to have access to supernatural things to do His Work. That is what is missing in the Church today- POWER, that is received by the SUPERNATURAL POWER of the believer in PRAYER, and the knowledge of how to APPLY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

God bless,

Stever :-D

 2007/1/22 8:27
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
There we have it- the expert to guide us where? Because I am a Christian believer that believes in the efficy (effectiveness) of Christ's Blood I am now branded SUPERSTITIOUS.


If it had been possible to preserve Christ's blood in a vial, as the Roman Catholic church once believed, would that blood have had the power to take away sin?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/1/22 18:04Profile









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
There we have it- the expert to guide us where? Because I am a Christian believer that believes in the efficy (effectiveness) of Christ's Blood I am now branded SUPERSTITIOUS.


If it had been possible to preserve Christ's blood in a vial, as the Roman Catholic church once believed, would that blood have had the power to take away sin?



Stever responds:

No, the Bible teaches us that it MUST be applied to the Mercy Seat.

In the Old Testament is the "picture" or "shadow" of what is required. In the Old Testament the blood of sheep and goats only COVERED the sin of the people at the Day of ATONEMENT. Not until the Messiah came did the picture become reality. Instead of covering sin with the blood of sheep and goats, Christ's sinless blood took away the sin of the whole world (only those who believe in Him are saved and will spend eternity with Him).
Christ was crucified, and rose again on the 3rd day, and ascended to heaven to apply his sinless perfect blood to the Mercy Seat in Heaven.

Christ's blood saves us from sin---

"If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN" (1John1:7).

Joining a church DOES NOT cleanse from sin.

Being baptized in water DOES NOT cleanse from sin.

Living a good life DOES NOT cleanse from sin.

THE BLOOD OF JESUS - HIS BLOOD ALONE - cleanses from sin.

"THE WAGES OF SIN is death; but the GIFT OF GOD IS eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

The Bible tells us:
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now TO APPEAR IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD FOR US” (Hebrews 9:24).

It further teaches us:

“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an HIGH PRIEST, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens” (Hebrews 8:1)

It further teaches us:
“Seeing then that we have a great HIGH PRIEST, that is passed into the heavens, JESUS THE SON OF GOD…” (Hebrews 4:14). Jesus’ tabernacle is in Heaven, not on earth, “A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Hebrews 8:2).

It further teaches:
“Who serve unto the EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount” (Hebrews 5:8).

The Old Testament tabernacle was a "mirror image" of the tabernacle in Heaven where Christ would someday make the atonement with His shed blood. Jesus used His own blood which was shed on the cross to atone for our sins. Christ’s blood was applied to the mercy seat in heaven.

The Bible further teaches:
“Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1st Peter 1:18,19).

And Teaches us more on this:
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water” (Hebrews 10:19-22).

And adds more to our understanding:
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself” (Hebrews 7:27).

And more understanding:
“So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many” (Hebrews 9:28). “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all” (Hebrews 10:10)

Philologos, how can you allegorize the Scripture in this regard? We are only humans, with limited (if any) understanding of spiritual things. God has explained to us in His Scripture about His plan, from the beginning in Genesis to the book of Revelation. Are you, with a human mind and body of flesh and blood dismissing the teaching (Doctrine) that is taught throughout the entire Bible?

Tyndale embraced the concept of the Blood, as well as many other giants in the hall of faith from long ago.

Tell me, how does any man have the right to allegorize and dismiss this teaching?


God bless,

Stever :-D

 2007/1/22 20:32
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Christ was crucified, and rose again on the 3rd day, and ascended to heaven to apply his sinless perfect blood to the Mercy Seat in Heaven.


Stever, are you saying that the new covenant wasn't complete until Christ ascended into Heaven?

If so how did Christ say "It is finished", if it wasn't?

Also I would like to draw your attention to Hebrews 13:20

Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

This says that Christ was resurrected by God through the blood of the everlasting covenant. If what you are saying was true this wouldn't be possible as the blood of the covenant wouldn't have been effective [u]until[/u] he rose into heaven, it would be catch 22.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2007/1/23 10:13Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Philologos, how can you allegorize the Scripture in this regard? We are only humans, with limited (if any) understanding of spiritual things. God has explained to us in His Scripture about His plan, from the beginning in Genesis to the book of Revelation. Are you, with a human mind and body of flesh and blood dismissing the teaching (Doctrine) that is taught throughout the entire Bible?


You are so earth-bound in your understandings that you still live in the world of shadows and types. I doubt that there is much point in us corresponding.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/1/23 10:29Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re:

Well this is a heated debated, so I hope I can throw some light on some issues rather than throw some fuel on the fire, but I don't have too much confidence in my ability.

Stever wrote

Quote:
His blood was inherited from the Holy Spirit, and his flesh was inherited from Mary. The blood of Adam did not flow in His veins, as it flows in mine and yours.

This is one of the original quotes, but is supported by extracts from a book. Sadly, the book contains a lot of the pseudo-scientific thinking that can so easily ruins the reputation of Christians among well educated people. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that scientific thinking was not as advanced when M.R. Dehaan, M.D lived 1891-1965, but we must be so careful not to try and develop a physiological theory of salvation, when it is a spiritual problem. He goes through several scenarios that seem to imply scientific certainty, but which are misleading in the extreme. Firstly, blood is genetically defined and developed from the DNA in a cell; matching pairs of chromosomes come from both mother and father. Therefore, there is nothing about taking human flesh and not human blood that can be easily divided. Instead it woudl require intricate separation and mixing of human DNA and celestial DNA to isolate the blood. Secondly, as he must have known a major element of blood is formed in the bone marrow, so the blood comes from the flesh. Thirdly, by his own words he says the mother's blood provides some elements of an embryo's blood. It is the cellular aspects and some other components that do not and must not mix.

In fact I am not sure anything of Christ came from Adam, I hear that a body was prepared for Him, born into Mary's line, but with a new body, to be a new man, to bring forth a new creation.

This apparently was one of Dr Dehaan's most popular books, and it would be so much better if it had been allowed to fade away. We all make mistakes and try our best with the knowledge we had at the time, but the gospel remains clear. It is a spiritual work that out-works in our bodies. I know that I need a new heart, but this type of new heart I cannot get by consulting a world renown heart surgeon, only by coming to Christ.

Stever wrote
Quote:
That is what is missing in the Church today- POWER, that is received by the SUPERNATURAL POWER of the believer in PRAYER, and the knowledge of how to APPLY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

The blood of Christ cleanses me and entitles me to stand before the throne of grace, and that blood still speaks on my behalf. It is before that throne I have power, and can now appeal for others, and rest my case with the one who sits on the throne and await His answer as an obedient servant. Then it is not of me, but of Him who answers. I am not sure I am even entitled to handle the blood of the lamb, it is too precious for my hands and had to be handled by a true high priest, though by His graces He washes me in it.

Kind regards
Mike

 2007/1/23 12:12Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

when im praying, i always first ask him to cleanse me in the blood, is that wrong and supersticius? when L Ravenhill prayed for his family and "covered" them in the Blood, was that wrong? almost every time i hear Keith Daniel pray he uses the blood in similar ways, my question is is this wrong? if so why?


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/1/23 14:53Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
when im praying, i always first ask him to cleanse me in the blood, is that wrong and supersticius? when L Ravenhill prayed for his family and "covered" them in the Blood, was that wrong? almost every time i hear Keith Daniel pray he uses the blood in similar ways, my question is is this wrong? if so why?

You raise a good point. We hear so many praying these things, we come to believe that they must be right. But do we have the scriptures to support this approach. Paul mentions he prays for many, but does he pray in this way, or Peter, or John, or does Luke record such prayers, or is it in the Lord's prayer?

Mike

 2007/1/23 15:07Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Where is the Blood of Christ? It is all over the area where He was beaten, it is all over the road to the Cross and the rest is at the base of the Cross. This is the physical places of the Blood of Christ the Last Altar, that is the world He came to save.

When His dead head fell on dead shoulders, that is the blood of Christ, His death in place of ours.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/1/24 5:54Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

yes thats the physikal(unsure spelling) blood of christ, but its not that blood we need...then i need to book a plane ticket fast and go get cleansed in that blood at the fot of the cross, if we cant use the "spiritual" blood in prayer...how is it possible to say "im crusified whit christ", no you are not becuse christ was crusifed 2000 years ago, and you werent there, to me it sounds like if we say the blood is supersticius...how come the cross isent? when we say they have to die...do we meen they have to go out in the backyard and ask someone to nail them to a cross?

when we say ohh i lay myself as a sacrifice? is that supersticius saying?

when i pray i pray that God should draw my kids unto himself and cleanse them in the blood that his lamb may recive glory from their lives....

i pray i want to be crusified whit all my fleshly lusts and so on? is that supersticius?

im sorry i just dont get it? whats wrong whit it? is scripture against prayer like this?


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/1/24 6:17Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy