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Discussion Forum : General Topics : WAKE UP YOU SLEEPY CHRISTIANS!!!!!!

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Hold up there Corey, that is totally unnecessary. This is precisely where division comes forth by making comments like this, unwarranted.

"Bablylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. FOR ALL NATIONS HAVE DRUNK OF THE WINE OF THE WRATH OF HER FORNICATION WITH HER, AND THE MERCHANTS OF THE EARTH ARE WAXED RICH THROUGH THE ABUNDANCE OF HER DELICACIES... How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow... And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning... And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her, for no man buyeth their merchandise any more... and the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing... For in one hour so great riches is come to naught. And every shipmaster, and all the company of ships, and sailers, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like this great city... Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costlines! For in one hour she is made desolate... And in her was found the blood of the prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." (REV 18:2-19)

"The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues... And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." (REV 17:15-18)

If you truly believe we're in the last days (and I do), who's made the merchants of the earth rich by buying merchandise from just about every nation? What superpower "nation" reigns over the nations of the earth and has military bases in every hemisphere? Can anyone show me another nation that fits the bill? Afghanistan doesn't. Iraq doesn't. China doesn't.

Or please tell me how "Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costlines..." relates to modern-day Israel. North America is surrounded by ocean, not Israel.

Or what modern-day church has made the merchants rich and make the kings of the earth fall at her feet (for those who think Mystery Babylon's the apostate church)? The Catholic church controlled Europe back in the day... But they didn't make the merchants "wax rich"... So who does? Anyone?

From Wikipedia: "Gresham's law is commonly stated as: 'When there is a legal tender currency, bad money drives good money out of circulation'." For instance, paper money drives Gold out of circulation. Also, 'In the market for second hand cars, lemon automobiles (analogous to bad currency) will drive out the good cars.'

Gresham's Law in the Bible: "And I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities" (REV 18:4-5).

I'm sorry for offending anyone, but I've just come to Christ and I won't risk my salvation by being "soft and fluffy" about religion. I'm dead serious.

 2007/1/15 2:23


Hey Corey, God Bless You Brother.
I, like you would like to be a good Berean, search out the scriptures to see what is being said lines up with the Word of God. I was merely pointing out that "Stars" are never mentioned in the word in regards to a time period....never. It is told that we are to "Judge Prophecies", and you and I should exercise our full right to do so. In regards to watching the video, I cannot, as I do not lean towards dispensational theology...I used to be, but I cannot subscribe to alot of what is being said behind pulpits today. Therefore those who prophesy regarding "Mystery Babylon" as America, is a new one to me. All my life I have heard it taught everywhere that the Catholic Church is Mystery Babylon. But both these accusations are wrong. To be blunt, Israel is that mystery babylon, Israel of the past. She rode Rome and used Rome to persecute the Church. According to Ezkiel God arrayed her with jewels and costly attire. Ezkiel 16:7- But she fornicated and committed whoredoms to which God was grieved. Most of Revelations is found in Ezkiel and Daniel.

I grew up believing in Post Tribulation Rapture, I pushed it and was proud of it.

Until I discovered that in order to have a 7 year tribulation period, Daniel 9:27 would have to be that of a peace treaty with Israel, but in the King James it doesn't say that.

It says, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week". A confirming of a convenant is not creating a covenant.

Confirming is to ratify what is already been established.

The promise that was given to Abraham was to be confirmed by Christ when He should come in the 70th week of Daniel. Other translation have taken this out entirely to support their claims that an anti christ is going to make a 7 year peace treaty with Israel, and nowhere in scripture does this support this view.

However, just as Eve was beguiled by the serpent so we have been beguiled by lies of the dispensational teachers namely Scofield, Darby and others.

The words, "Confirming a convenant" and "Making a Peace Treaty" are at two opposite ends. The making has to be done first before the confirming. An example of this is 1Kings 1:14 Behold, while thou yet talkest there with the king, I also will come in after thee, and confirm thy words.

Look up all the words confirm in the bible and see how it relates to what is being said in Daniel, it'll surprise you.

For example.

God made a promise to Abraham, Abraham believed God and God showed Him the land, what Abraham saw was Christ, because Christ is the land. But Abraham did not receive the promise, he only saw it.

Jesus said, Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. John 8:56.

Though the promises were made, yet the deal was not ratified until the promise seed should come, which Jesus signed in His own blood.

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers Romans 15:8

Another example of confirming deals is Ruth 4:7 Now this was the manner in former time in Israel concerning redeeming and concerning changing, for to confirm all things; a man plucked off his shoe, and gave it to his neighbour: and this was a testimony in Israel.

When you begin to see that this is talking about Jesus Christ and NOT an anti christ, the whole 7 year tribulation is thrown out the window as there is no support for it's teaching. It all hinges on that one verse, which will you believe? Man and his interpretations or just the plain scriptures??

Search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39.

 2007/1/15 12:23

Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178


Even if I don't have enough knowledge of end time events, I have enough wisdom from God to heed a warning. I don't think the devil would tell anyone to repent. I am an American and I love my country, but daily I am grieved over the trash I see. It makes me want to throw up. To sit and watch TV with my granddaughter and be suject to male enhancement commercials and worse makes me think some should go back are read Bro. David Wilkerson's Vision book.

America is vile in so many ways. I am sure much of it is a stench in God's nostrils, I also believe there are many who have not bowed the knee to baal.


 2007/1/15 12:59Profile


I'm sorry for offending anyone, but I've just come to Christ and I won't risk my salvation by being "soft and fluffy" about religion. I'm dead serious.

Welcome to the unique family of God, where you'll find family members bickering amongst ourselves (what family doesn't) but one thing is for sure is that we all love one another regardless of our differences and that we love our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ, which our salvation hinges on, Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Having said that, lets do some more mean studing :-P

Regarding the fluff, the teachings that are on Revelations today in modern christendom is that indeed, Fluff. There are a few camps that differ on the subject. The main ones are Pre, Mid and Post Tribulation Rapture. You probably fall into one of these catagories as I was for many years.

Always keep in mind that dispensational theology changes gear every so often because they always get their dates wrong, therefore they'll change again and again.

If your new at this, I highly recommend you study all the different teachings that people hold to and why they do. In a debate, it's important that all particpants get a birds eye view of what their opponent believes so that he can rebutt it(if he can) so that the hearers can make up their own mind of what is true and what is false.

Be zealous, but don't be foolish and not listen to what is being said.

I am a listener, my friends are basically those who can't shut up. Sometimes they don't listen to me, they are waiting for me to be quiet so they can blab out their opinions, friendships of that nature never last long.

The same goes in reading posts, when we have a lot to say, we just scan the post but were not really reading it, we just want to pick out something we can shoot, like looking for a deer in the fall when all the foliage is the same colour as the deer, KA-POW, ahh darn, it was a tree.

Regarding the peoples, nations and tongues, that refered to Rome, she ruled the world in her day. But I'll comment on that in another post. Gotta go and find that deer. ;-)

In the mean time, you can visit this site if you dare [url=]Mike Blume[/url]

 2007/1/15 13:05

 Re: The Vision

makes me think some should go back and read Bro. David Wilkerson's Vision book.

Amen Brother, read it and still reading it.

Regarding the repentance, the devil can speak of repentance if he can steer you in the direction of not believing the truth. Eve repented, that is she changed her mind about what God had said and believed the word of the serpent and ate of the tree. God is looking for contrite and broken hearts, repentance on it's own is not enough, like faith on it's own is not enough, Faith without works is dead.

I agree about the boob tube, I had to get rid of it out of my life, too many suggestions.

 2007/1/15 13:13

Joined: 2006/6/4
Posts: 31


I just read this and I have to say that I would take it with a grain of salt too (of course this should be the case with any prophecy of future events outside of the bible). While I cannot say if God or an angel (of God) actually talked with this guy, here are some parts that "bugged" me...

The Lord never gets tired of forgiving.

This absolute statement "never gets tired" leads one to believe that it doesnt matter how much one sins, that God will continue to forgive regardless. True His forgiveness never tires, but [b]its only given to those who repent, who turn from their sin and follow Him[/b]. The bible does clearly shows His judgment on those who keep disobeying (or using His grace for an excuse to continue sinning), I guess this could be considered as "getting tired of forgiving"? Possibly.

He showed me all of California and said, "This is Sodom and Gomorrah! All of this, in one day it will burn! It's sin has reached the Holy One." Then he took me to Las Vegas. "This is Sodom and Gomorrah. In one day it will burn." Then he showed me the state of New York. "Do you know what this is?" he asked. I said, "No." He said "This is New York. This is Sodom and Gomorrah! In one day it will burn." Then he showed me all of Florida, "This is Florida." he said. "This is Sodom and Gomorrah! In one day it will burn."

So what about "Po-dunk" USA? I have seen some small towns that rival Las Vegas in regards to sin and corruption, will they not burn as well? Or does God only take into consideration big cities in regards to sin? Is it a cities quantity or quality of sin that He takes into account? Ummm... Again this guy's stuff just rubs me the wrong way. I am also surprised that this guy said "No" to these places being burned. Instead of saying that, I think it would spur one to start or step up their witnessing to the lost, or to plead for opportunity to seek and save that which is lost (Christ's example), but that is just me.

He said, "... The Russian spies have discovered where the nuclear warehouses are in America. When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety - from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean, from Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico,,.." (He told me two other countries, but I didn't remember what they were.) [b]"...they will bomb the nuclear warehouses. When they explode, America will burn![/b]"

What is reveal is so generalized its hard not for it come true (matter of fact its true in all countries - at least for the "internal problems", fighting against the govt, etc. I also question this claim in that a planted explosion will not detonate nuclear warheads; besides the security measures taken to protect our nukes is top notch (I am not saying its full proof, but to be even in the same compound that houses nukes is a big undertaking and it pales in comparison to what it takes to be in the same room with an actual nuke with a hidden explosive device). As for those coming from south america, thru Mexico, that is the easiest avenue of approach, but thats a no brainer, it doesnt take a prophecy to figure that out. Still what this guy said just "bothers me" for some reason, and its not because he indicates that America is Babylon either. To me there are only two nations, God's and Satan's, and we are called to invade Satan's territory by witnessing to the lost.

The angel of the Lord also told me, "I have blessed this country because of the Jewish people who are in this country. I have seven million Jews in this country, but they do not want to recognize the Lord.

Actually what I have read in the bible shows that those who are obedient to God are blessed, so we should strive to not only grow closer to Christ, but to obey His commands.

"How will I know that this is for real -that it will really happen?" I asked. "As a sign that I have spoken to you, tomorrow before you wake, I will send someone to bring you a bed, and at noon I will send you a car and a bucket of honey. After which I will send someone to pay your rent."

Oh boy... I suggest looking at this guys past "prophecies" and if [b]any[/b] of them didnt aline with scripture or if [b]any[/b] of them did not come to pass. If just one didnt come to pass, personally I would leave all this guys stuff as scripture dictates, but that is just me.

In closing, I would be very careful with those who claim to have been given a future prophecy. Interesting to read & consider, but I would rather take the time to study scripture to be an approved workman who obeys what God has given us to do already (witness, love our neighbors, give to those in need, pray, etc).

For me, biblical future prophecy used to concern me, but since I know who is going to win in the end, it leaves me to more pressing matters like witnessing to those that are lost.


 2007/1/15 22:32Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA



It's not the tune you sing that provokes... but that your notes are too sharp brother.

I'm sorry for offending anyone, but I've just come to Christ and I won't risk my salvation by being "soft and fluffy" about religion. I'm dead serious.

Watch your accusations brother and slow down. You are not the only one around here dead serious.

Mike Balog

 2007/1/15 23:33Profile


For me, biblical future prophecy used to concern me, but since I know who is going to win in the end, it leaves me to more pressing matters like witnessing to those that are lost.

Amen. I got a little hot-headed earlier in this post over the whole "identity of Babylon" thing - and I still think America fits the bill - but you're right brother. We know who wins in the end.

 2007/1/15 23:36

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