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unseen_call
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Joined: 2006/8/11
Posts: 4


 Paul Cain

I am doing research on Paul Cain. I was wondering if anyone knew of any good sites that i could go to to read his sermans and if any books have been written about him. Thanks!

 2007/1/12 12:27Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re: Paul Cain

Brothter,

He was part of a group called the "kansas city prophets" about 10-15 years ago and was heavily involved with the vineyard movement. If you research about them you will find that it dissolved and feel apart and some of the members of that group feel into vile sin. Paul Cain being one of them.

"In October 2004 Cain's ministry came to a halt when ministry associate Rick Joyner published a special bulletin stating that Cain was an alcoholic and "had been recently involved in homosexual activity." Following that, in March of 2005, Cain issued a public apology on his website stating: "I must apologize to the body of Christ for my recent conduct...I have struggled in two particular areas, homosexuality and alcoholism, for an extended period of time...if I have hurt anyone by my actions of emotional or sexual misconduct, I am very sorry."

Cain, who recently celebrated his 77th birthday, has submitted to a restoration process under the covering of the board of RTV International Ministries in Pasadena and is currently undergoing treatment for both alcholholism and a recent diagnosis of a rare form of cancer.

Here is his ministry website:
http://www.paulcain.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cain

Here are some discernment sites on him:
http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain5.htm
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/vine/vineyard.htm


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/1/12 12:33Profile
iansmith
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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

The first time I heard about Paul Cain was actually listening to Leonard Ravenhill... Leonard had a keen eye for wolves in sheeps clothing but somehow he missed Paul Cain, because he couldn't stop singing his praises.

Leonard made special note to state that Paul Cain had a special accountability partner in his mother... as it turns out, it was probably the pressure from his mother that forced him into an unnatural relationship instead of leading him towards a normal sexual relationship in marriage.

It's a shame to think that this man had the trust and affection of Leonard Ravenhill but was rotten in his core... then again another reason why we shouldn't put our faith in any man, no matter how good they look on the outside. Hold fast to Jesus!


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Ian Smith

 2007/1/12 12:51Profile
Goldminer
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Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: Paul Cain

While I agree that Paul Cain has really messed up his walk and testimony, but to say he was rotten to the core could bring sentence on ourselves.

There have been many people of God who have started out right and finished badly. To discount everything good they have ever done is not good. There are also those who have been restored and went on to be real assets to the work of God, take John Mark for instance and Samson in his last moments, who is even listed in Hebrews 11 as one of the heroes of the faith.


Hbr 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:


We need to call sin sin but also to acknowledge all of us are liable to do the same except for the Grace of God.


Paul Cain's mother was a awesome woman of God and to read into the situation that her pressure caused him to do what he did is assumption unless you have evidence of that.

We are all apt to fall if we don't stay connected in the way we should. We are capable of murder, greed, sexual abuse and the like if we step away for one moment from the source of our life.


Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.


Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.


[color=0000FF]God makes provision for restoration and I don't consider anyone rotten to the core, unless I consider myself first. We must be careful not to think anyone beyond help.[/color]

God loves Paul Cain as much as He loves anybody. God still wants to use him if he is truly repentant. The word above says restore in the spirit of meekness lest we also be tempted.

Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

------------------------------------------------

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.


Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.


Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.


Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.


Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

-------------------------------------------------

If Paul Cain comes to the place of true repentance we can expect God to say this about him, and us, thank God.

Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


[color=0000FF]I also know if a person is in leadership they should be corrected in front of the whole church. I believe this is what Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle and others did.[/color]



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KLC

 2007/1/12 13:31Profile









 Ian

Brother, beloved brother,

be cool, let me just state that until I heard about Mr Cain's torments and sin, I knew nothing of the man, but I agree with Goldminer. "rotten to the core" "wolf in sheeps clothing"?

Dear Ian, God forbid, but any man, any woman can find any sin overtaking them, and it is incumbent upon us to either show grace and mercy via prayer, OR to hold our tongue (read keyboard in this instance) and keep our condemnations to ourselves.

Didnt Greg testify that this 77 year old man is undergoing restoration?

Hence, is not the Blood of Christ available for cleansing?

forgive me, if I spoke out of turn, but it is the grace displayed, from the Grace given, that distinguishes us from those that lack the Provisions of Christ.

amen?

God love you as I do, neil

men are weak, Jesus is strong.
religion kills, Jesus saves.

 2007/1/12 14:16
iansmith
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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: Ian

My words were not well chosen and I apologize for that. My knowledge of the situation was that this was not isolated, but that he had been involved in these activities for years -so with that in mind he decieved many over the course of his problems; including Leonard Ravenhill.

We're all rotten inside when Jesus isn't the center of our lives, so those words shouldn't be taken to mean too much, and the Wolf in Sheeps clothing is a correct assesment -he was publically claiming to be a sanctified evangelist, but privately he was engaged in heinous and ongoing corrupted activities...

My thought about his mother was pure conjecture, however I feel that it does have some weight. We should encourage our Christian brothers and sisters to engage in normal relational and sexual activity -this is part of human life, God did not intend for us all to be celibate! We see how the pressures towards a celibate life without end can lead to perverse sexual relations among the Catholic clergy.

The fact of the matter is that his mother, albiet a Godly woman, was attributed in part to his fall from grace due to her controlling his life (she was the one who decided that he would be an evangelist for example -even if he was unqualified). We need the accountability of our peers, not the control of a dictator.


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Ian Smith

 2007/1/12 15:16Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
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 Re:

Paul Cain going under "restoration" through Rick Joyner is like Richard Nixon receiving counseling from Bill Clinton. Both Paul Cain and Rick Joyner are both false prophets. Both have prophesied doctrines that were by all means extra-biblical, and prophesied things that simply were not true. I don't say this full of venom or bitterness in my mouth.

These guys are the center of the so-called "prophetic movement," which teaches people "how-to" prophesy, and to become "more accurate" in their prophecies. Such should send shivers down your spine from the get-go, as such is a clearly taught against in Scripture. E.g. Deuteronomy 13 & 18. While I fully believe in modern day prophecy being for today (1 Cor 14), I believe these guys to be diviners, not prophets. They are super-stars instead of humble servants of Christ. They prophesy for money and bleed people dry.


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Jimmy H

 2007/1/12 15:58Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
The first time I heard about Paul Cain was actually listening to Leonard Ravenhill... Leonard had a keen eye for wolves in sheeps clothing but somehow he missed Paul Cain, because he couldn't stop singing his praises.


Paul Cain when he began his ministry had much anointing from God and influence. It was like Jimmy Swaggart in his day. But just as Jimmy Swaggart fell and Ravenhill was upset over that continually, also if Ravenhill knew of Paul Cain's fall he would treat him in the same way. We have "unholy prophets" in our day! we are raising "unholy prophets" and the people love to have it so.

Brethren let us set our eyes on better things, "more excellent" things. God is speaking His pure Word in our day, the question is do we have "ears to hear?"


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/1/12 16:10Profile
iansmith
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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Prophesy this!

Quote:
These guys are the center of the so-called "prophetic movement," which teaches people "how-to" prophesy, and to become "more accurate" in their prophecies.



I recently had a talk with someone under this 'prophesy' teaching... I am reaching out to a young man I know, he's the typical Seattle guy, long hair, tattoos, cigarette smoke and free love and all.

I was able to have an open door with him because he's going through a lot of stuff and he knows I love Jesus, and he thinks Jesus might have some answers to his problems.

The only problem is that one of the two girls that he's seeing is a member of a vineyard that is very heavy on the prophesy teaching.

In fact, even though she is compromising her testimony by being in a relationship with him, she believes that her relationship will bring him to Jesus -why? Well because someone with the gift of Prophesy told her that her relationship with him was within the will of God.

So now I'm caught in the middle and he doesn't know whose Jesus to believe in! I'm really at a loss for words as what to do.

I really need to pray and meditate upon how to continue reaching out to him. I gave the Christian sister a copy of Melody Greens 'Why a Christian shouldn't date an unbeliever.' But I really don't think that anything got through!

Right now I just kind of want to walk away from the situation... oh yeah, and the other girl that he's in a relationship with is pregnant and will most likely get an abortion! Meanwhile the Christian girl with the prophesy as her ammunition believes that she's destined to be with this guy, so she's doing everything she can to get him to break off all contact with this non Christian girl who's currently pregnant with his child!

I want the gift of prophesy for rebuking! Come on! Sorry, I needed to vent about prophesy and this was the first place I could do it.


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Ian Smith

 2007/1/12 16:11Profile
chadster
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Joined: 2006/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

While we can NEVER condone, justify, or rationalize away sin; we become just as guilty before God when we set ourselves up as judges. God alone knows the hearts...and while I love this website, when I read posts like King Jimmy's and the pompous self righteous indignation against other believers with whom his doctrinal position may be different and castigates them as he did, it deeply greives me and makes me never want to never visit this forum again. How can we call ourselves Christians and fall into this deplorable trap of setting ourselves up as such righteous judges???? It really baffles me. Were God to put our sins on public display who of us could stand blameless and unashamed...even our works of righteousness are as filthy rags in His sight.

 2007/1/12 16:13Profile





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