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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The wicked church in America

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Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: The wicked church in America

Dear roaringlamb,

You are absolutely correct that the church is a living entity not a building. I we would recognise this fact we would have an unseemed fellowship with each other. Good point.


12:20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.


1Cr 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.


1Cr 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:


1Cr 12:23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.


1Cr 12:24 For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked:


1Cr 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.


1Cr 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.


1Cr 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


_________________
KLC

 2007/1/9 15:50Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

It is difficult to see how it all fits together, I think that is why folks opt for the easy way of "we have always done it this way" rather than seeking what God might approve of.
It's the joy of being in the "family of God" that should bring us together. I know that even in my natural family, if I am upset with a family member, it is almost impossible to hold a grudge against them for very long, but how much more under the all seeing eye of our Father in Heaven?
Then of course we must also point out that there needs to be discernment as to who is in the Family, and who is not. For instance, if someone came to my front door, and began to tell me that they were in my family, yet could not declare how they were in my family, I would have doubts about their sincerity. But if someone had the "birthmarks" of being in my family, then boy oh boy, how sweet it would be to get to know them!!


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patrick heaviside

 2007/1/9 16:18Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 KISS

K= keep I= it S= simple S= stupid (this one isn't really my choice of word but it is the way the saying goes, sorry if it offends anyone it's not meant to.)

I love truths conveyed in simplistic manner. People are more apt to rember them. Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him. There has always been 2 types of people in the congregation, the upright who fear the Lord and thoughs who don't, not all Israel i Israel. I personally believe that the churches in Revelation are ever present all here now, in that respect I don't follow dispensationalists.
BTW hypocrisy is a picture word in the NT and is that of a play actor, someone who is one thing in church and another at home and another in thier respective work places, one person many faces.

As to your opening statement I agree, much is wrong with the American church, but much is right also
:-)


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D.Miller

 2007/1/9 16:21Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: KISS

Quote:
Roniya's: And those who are revived and real with God will be burdened for their fellow brethren to get right with God, because [u]is it not the glory of God that is at stake here?[/u] We are the Bride of Christ, it is possible for our garments to be dirty, but the Blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse away ALL filthiness.



I think of Romans 1:21 and the people who did not honor God [u]as[/u] God. I think this is what is mainly at stake; that folk consider themselves Christians but have not exalted God [u]as[/u] God. I think this is a product of a multitude of spurious conversions.

I hear over and over again that people are 'against' the Church if they speak up against things that are going on. I do not agree with that unless the person is intentionally coming against the Church for the sake of tearing her down. We need to provoke one another to love and to good works. Sometimes that requires bringing up certain goings on such as A.W. Tozer pointed out. People have lost their sense of being born again and have yielded to logical deductions drawn from proof texts.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/1/9 16:48Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: KISS

Quote:
Roniya's: And those who are revived and real with God will be burdened for their fellow brethren to get right with God, because [u]is it not the glory of God that is at stake here?[/u] We are the Bride of Christ, it is possible for our garments to be dirty, but the Blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse away ALL filthiness.



I think of Romans 1:21 and the people who did not honor God [u]as[/u] God. I think this is what is mainly at stake; that folk consider themselves Christians but have not exalted God [u]as[/u] God. I think this is a product of a multitude of spurious conversions.

I hear over and over again that people are 'against' the Church if they speak up against things that are going on. I do not agree with that unless the person is intentionally coming against the Church for the sake of tearing her down. We need to provoke one another to love and to good works. Sometimes that requires bringing up certain goings on such as A.W. Tozer pointed out. People have lost their sense of being born again and have yielded to logical deductions drawn from proof texts.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/1/9 16:49Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Dear Roaringlamb,

Quote:
What we call "church" is a system that for the most part does not exist to bring people under the Headship of Christ, but rather under the headship of man.



Sometime ago I encountered a group of believers from Nigeria. They were in a shopping center in the neighborhood I lived in passing out literature. After talking to one of them, they invited me to come and meet the pastor, so I did.


As we all talked together the pastor made a point which I think was along the same lines as what you stated here. He brought up the question of why the soldiers, when they came to arrest the Lord Jesus, had to ask who He was. Why, was it, so his point seemed to be, that it was not [b]obvious[/b].


Quote:
I firmly believe there must be another "reformation" where the people are given the Scriptures, and men preach and serve to bring men to Christ not to themselves, and not because they can gain something from them.




One of the things I found so refreshing about the ministry of Ray Comfort was this very emphasis, that of seeking to introduce people to the saviour, apart from any other motives. Before this I had become very frustrated with the idea of seeking to get people to come to [i]Church[/i], something which was strongly emphasised in the congregation I attended.

Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/1/9 17:49Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re: The wicked church in America

I actually just wrote this in a post today:

I think it’s good to be reminded about the impact we can have on the atheist. After all statistics say that 85% of America claim to be Christian/believers of God, which is complete falicy. As has been claimed by several preachers/evangelists, I to venture to say that only 13% of America may be a true follower of Christ. So what does this mean? Not only are there a mass number of non-believers and atheists that walk the streets of America, but our churches are sick - full of people who don’t have a clue, and pastors who cut and paste their own ideology into Scripture and call it truth.

How sad it is that America has a sick church. ‘The church’ is supposed to be the healthy place for the sick to come to, but it has now become sick itself and very contagious. America has a high percentage of supposed believers because America looks at the church and sees that it isn’t much different then itself. For example… I know a couple that claim to be Christian because they voted for Bush. It doesn’t matter that he looks at porn or is an alcoholic. As long as he and his wife go to church on Easter and Christmas and send a number of “Christian” email fwds. every few months, then he “knows” he is heavenbound. Our churches are filled with much of the similiar. Sure we have the congregants that consistantly attend, but it’s “ok” to consistantly sin, because after all God is full of grace and will forgive everytime we do it. And many pastors follow this same pattern.

I wrote this, also knowing that, yes, there are some vibrant, living churches in America, however I think the church in general is walking a very thin line in what Scripture actually says and what we want Scripture to say, so that it makes us feel a little easier about the sin we partake of on a daily basis.

 2007/1/9 17:58Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: The wicked church in America

I think part of the reason for the carnality in the church in the USA is because it costs us very little in comparison to the church in other countries, many of which can cost them thier lives. I believe that difficult times ahead will cause us to re-evaluate how much and what our faith means to us. In the face of persecution and death what choices will we make. It will separate the sheep from the goats.


_________________
KLC

 2007/1/9 21:25Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
I know a couple that claim to be Christian because they voted for Bush. It doesn’t matter that he looks at porn or is an alcoholic. As long as he and his wife go to church on Easter and Christmas and send a number of “Christian” email fwds. every few months, then he “knows” he is heavenbound.



These people do not constitute the Church of Christ. God does not factor these people in when he is dealing with the Church. These are lost people who claim salvation but they are under the wrath of God. It is not right to say that God will punish the Church for the sins of the world.

Honestly, why would God punish the Church for the world's sins?

 2007/1/9 21:31Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
I hear over and over again that people are 'against' the Church if they speak up against things that are going on. I do not agree with that unless the person is intentionally coming against the Church for the sake of tearing her down. We need to provoke one another to love and to good works. Sometimes that requires bringing up certain goings on such as A.W. Tozer pointed out. People have lost their sense of being born again and have yielded to logical deductions drawn from proof texts.


Well said.


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Mike Balog

 2007/1/9 22:40Profile





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