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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The wicked church in America

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JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 The wicked church in America

Does anyone else besides me (and possibly Jay Bird) cringe at all of the posts that refer to the 'wicked unrepentant church in America'?

The church in America is repentant, vibrant, in love with God, on her knees praying, seeking His face in all matters, and sharing the love of Christ to all people.

The problem is that too many unregenerate people claim to be Christians. It is not the church that is the problem, it is the hypocrites who claim the blood of Christ, yet trample on it daily in their lives.

The church in America loves God. God is pleased with the church in America.

It reminds me of a Paul Washer sermon in which a preacher gave a statistic: 70% of born again teenagers do not believe in the resurrection. Paul replies, 'Sir, if they do not believe in the resurrection then how can they be born again.'

Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

 2007/1/9 12:04Profile
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re: The wicked church in America

I agree with you. unfortunately, the Church gets blamed for the behavior of false converts.


_________________
Melissa

 2007/1/9 12:17Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:



Quote:
I agree with you. unfortunately, the Church gets blamed for the behavior of false converts.



...and the backsliders, those who do not keep up with repentance, and those who Jesus rebuked who have fallen away from their first love, you know, the lukewarmers, that God said He will spew out if they don't come back to their first love. seems jesus saw alot of wickedness in the church!


_________________
Lisa

 2007/1/9 12:27Profile









 Re: The wicked church in America

Quote:
The church in America is repentant, vibrant, in love with God, on her knees praying, seeking His face in all matters, and sharing the love of Christ to all people.


That is the revived church.
Quote:
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Rev. 2:4



I weep for those in the Church that have left their first love.

Quote:
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev. 3:2-3


I weep for those whose works are not perfect before God.

Quote:
The problem is that too many unregenerate people claim to be Christians. It is not the church that is the problem, it is the hypocrites who claim the blood of Christ, yet trample on it daily in their lives.


Amen. Paul Washer's sermon, [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=12829&commentView=itemComments]Examine Yourselves[/url] is such a powerful message in relation to this.

Are there not three groups, brother Jay? Is there not a group of people who are saved, washed in the Blood of Jesus, and yet through choices to make self first and not God first have become mediocre and backslidden? I'm thinking of a message by Keith Daniel, [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4247&commentView=itemComments]Protection From Backsliding[/url], the first step to backsliding is entering the day without soaking yourself in God's Word. [i]This[/i] is the church of God that needs revival! This is the church for which I am burdened. And those who are revived and real with God [i]will[/i] be burdened for their fellow brethren to get right with God, because is it not the glory of God that is at stake here? We are the Bride of Christ, it is possible for our garments to be dirty, but the Blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse away ALL filthiness.

BTW, this isn't just in America, but in the UK, South Africa, etc...

 2007/1/9 12:30
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: The wicked church in America

rem·nant (rĕm'nənt)
n.
Something left over; a remainder.
A piece of fabric remaining after the rest has been used or sold.
A surviving trace or vestige: a remnant of his past glory.
A small surviving group of people. Often used in the plural.

The remnant is the Church. The "true Church" that is. Many still believe that the buildings and all the people in them are what makes up the body of Christ.

God Bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/1/9 13:12Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Are there not three groups, brother Jay? Is there not a group of people who are saved, washed in the Blood of Jesus, and yet through choices to make self first and not God first have become mediocre and backslidden?



I do not believe that their are separate groups in the church as follows: Regenerate on fire, Regenerate lukewarm, unregenerate on fire, unregenerate lukewarm. I see one group in the church: Regenerate. I agree that there are Christian's who slide into a state of complacency. But these individuals are still part of the true vibrant church. These Christian's are being disciplined by God in love in order to bring them closer to Himself.

Hebrews 12:4-6 speaks of this:
Quote:
"In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. "Make level paths for your feet," so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed."



This discipline is for the Christian's own good. God will not allow them to remain complacent. This is not discipline of condemnation, this is discipline that brings the believer back to God. In Revelation 3:19 Jesus says, "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent."

My own personal testimony is that I do (far more than I want) fall into a state of complacency. But, God in his grace and mercy brings me out of that state.

I say that to now say, 'God is actively bringing all complacent Christians closer to him.' I do not believe that God is sitting back in heaven wondering what to do with this Church problem to which He finally gives up and says 'Oh well, I can't do anything with them so I might as well destroy them all.' We are not under the Old Covenant anymore. 2 Corinthians 5:17-18 says, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;"

I make a request, can we discontinue with the 'God will destroy America due to the church's lack of repentance' posts and begin posting the 'each person examine themselves to see whether or not they are in the faith' posts.

 2007/1/9 13:54Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: The wicked church in America

I want to highlight a couple of things from this quote:

"Are there not three groups, brother Jay? Is there not a group of people who are saved, washed in the Blood of Jesus, and yet through choices to make self first and not God first have become mediocre and backslidden? I'm thinking of a message by Keith Daniel, Protection From Backsliding, the first step to backsliding is entering the day without soaking yourself in God's Word. This is the church of God that needs revival! This is the church for which I am burdened. And those who are revived and real with God will be burdened for their fellow brethren to get right with God, because is it not the glory of God that is at stake here? We are the Bride of Christ, it is possible for our garments to be dirty, but the Blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse away ALL filthiness.:

[color=3300CC]This is the church of God that needs revival! This is the church for which I am burdened. And those who are revived and real with God will be burdened for their fellow brethren to get right with God, because is it not the glory of God that is at stake here?[/color]



This is awesome love. I see this as the real issue. This quote is the heart of the Father. What is our heart in the condition of the church. Does it burden us to get on our knees and repent ourselves to identify with the condition as Daniel did:



Dan 9:8 O Lord, to us [belongeth] confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that [is] written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan 9:15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.



[color=0000CC]We need to see the body is one and:[/color]



Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

1Cr 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.





* I feel we have a great responsibility toward any that are stuggling and even those who are messed up or lost. Those going through the motions, or have an outward sign of being a Christian are important to God.



2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.



The Lord has given us a pattern of what we are supposed to do if we see a brother taken in a sin, I'm sure that includes the sins spoken of in this forum.



Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.




I think the mistake we often make is in not following these guidelines. How many of us really go and approach our brother in love and make every effort to get them on the right path? More often we point out thier faults to others and write them off in our lives as unworthy.

We need to repent and do what the word says in love. Our heart should be that we would rather die than see our brother miss all that God has for him or her. Brokeness over their condition should move our hearts to share the truth with them in love. We need to prophecy to dry bones and see God bring life. We need to declare God's word over their situations and see them set free. What are we doing with the wicked church. Does our heart bleed like it is our own mother or child? Well if we are one body is should.

I don't want to judge the hearts of brothers and sisters, but I do want to have a part in speaking the word to help them be all God wants them to be.

I am actually walking in fear and trembling because the very ones I might be apt to judge on the basis of my limited knowledge by be doing the works that Christ commends.



Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.



and to those who prophecied and healed and cast out demons He might say, I never knew you.



Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.



We need to be laying our lives down for others and being careful not to condemn them.



[color=0066FF]I am not saying the doesn't have many ugly blemishes, but I am asking what should we do with that information?[/color]


_________________
KLC

 2007/1/9 14:15Profile
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re: The wicked church in America

You're right Jay! How can we say the church is dead, truly? Or not alive? How dare we... It is alive! Jesus died for the church, and how can we say it not alive and trample upon it? For the church, in truth, is concerning the remnant everywhere, in the midst of the institutional-church etc., who are seeking God for his glory, and there are many many of them! :-)

Jordan

 2007/1/9 14:16Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

yes, the people are the church, and many are filthy and in need of a deep cleansing. the ephesus were considered God's people. they lost their first love. meaning they were once there and now they are not and in need of coming back or else. God rebuked them of their lukewarmness. means that God's people can backslide to lukewarmness and in need of a strong rebuke.

just like today's churches (christians). they are like the ephesus church. many were once there, but now they have lost their first love, backsliding to lukewarmness and in need of repentance.

and what about the laodiceans? they were neither hot or cold. God treated them as His own. He told the laodiceans that as many as i love, i rebuke and chasten. we know the Lord only discipline His children. God spoke to His own and said that He will vomit them out if they do not repent. thats pretty intense!

i can kinda understand why he was so hard to the lukewarmers. they are the ones who allow wolves and false converts in God's house.

today's churches are in need of strong rebuke just like the churches in revelation. true prophets are needed to cry out repent to the church (christians) and expose their nakedness (filth) that they may see their need to be clothed in Him,to be revived AGAIN to Him.




_________________
Lisa

 2007/1/9 14:18Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I think that if we can begin to move away from the idea that "the church" is a building, we are beginning to see something wonderful!
With that said, I would like to ask humbly whan did God give His stamp of approval to what we call church(buildings etc)?
It is really beginning to sink into my heart that we may have substituted one form of popery for another. By this I mean that in most "churches" there is one man whose interpretations of the Scriptures are what everyone must go with to be on the team. This leads to division with the other groups in the town, because they believe that everything they believe is "the truth" and therefore everyone else is wrong or less spiritual. But the Scriptures tell us "the Head of every man is Christ". He is my authority, He is my Teacher.
What we call "church" is a system that for the most part does not exist to bring people under the Headship of Christ, but rather under the headship of man. The system is flawed and people suffer because of it.
I firmly believe there must be another "reformation" where the people are given the Scriptures, and men preach and serve to bring men to Christ not to themselves, and not because they can gain something from them. If you think about it what happens most of the time when you meet another Christian(professing or otherwise)? The first question out is, "where do you go to church?, or "where do you fellowship?"
Then if you dare to say something other than what they want to hear, it is greeted with, "you should come to my church" but, and here is the problem, if we are both in the Body of Christ are we not the Church? It's people, not temples made with hands, but temples of flesh in which God dwells.
Forgive if I am rambling, but this is something God has really been burning into my heart. :-)


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patrick heaviside

 2007/1/9 14:31Profile





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