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Lacey_Aver_D
Member



Joined: 2008/3/12
Posts: 1


 Re: Addendum

I will take this to heart as i visit your community.

 2008/3/12 10:23Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4498


 Re: Addendum

Hi Mike...

Thanks for this timely reminder! What a fearful thing to remember that we will be held accountable for every word we speak or type -- both in public and in private!

Quote:

Think about the ramifications. It has come into our hearing on too many occasions that a great many are turned away from participation and who knows, maybe even from this site as a whole due to the actions, conduct and behavior of some of the members. Some have just up and left altogether who once frequented these pages. There are over 4000 unique people from over 80 countries that visit this site daily, this needs to be kept in the forefront of our minds.

Please, allow the moderators to do the moderating and do not take matters into your own hands. Allow us the discretion and the patience to deal with the inevitable issues that arise. What you might find troubling, heretical, disturbing is not lost upon us but remember that it is to your own self and your conduct here that you are responsible for first and foremost.


When I was a child, our family attended a very vibrant and sound congregation. Although I wasn't a believer at the time, the Church had a profound effect on my parents and siblings. Even as a child, however, I noticed a problem with a small faction of believers who attended the congregation. They took it upon themselves to police the Church by "quietly" exposing every hint of what they felt was wrong. My mom referred to them as the "Gestapo." Of course, this gossip was “sanctified” by the ol’ guise of concern, prayer requests and the call to “expose evil.” Any attempt by the leadership to reprove these believers led to addition questions of the leadership’s aptitude for “spiritual discernment.” They criticized anyone and everyone who could not “see” the things that they thought were easily discerned. Although my family was very involved in the Church, we tended to shy away from these individuals. My mom was afraid that this little group of gossipers would one day destroy the congregation. Because of my dad’s military orders, we eventually moved away from that community and Church.

Years later, I visited the area during a college internship. I wanted to meet the pastors and let them know that I had given my heart to the Lord while in high school. Unfortunately, that congregation no longer existed. The congregation ceased to exist and the property was sold to another congregation. I asked a family friend about what happened, and she said that a small group of members spread unhealthy words and rumors throughout the congregation. This constant gossip eventually turned off new believers and recent attendees. The leadership of the congregation eventually grew tired of constantly pointing out these same believers’ actions. Eventually, they left. The Church was safely in the hands of the small “Gestapo.” They used their newfound liberty to voice their complaints and criticism of everything from particular doctrines to motives. They rejected most of the new pastors simply because of petty differences and questions about their leadership ability. Of course, this did little to help the spiritual growth of the congregation. Eventually, this small faction turned on one another. The reputation of the congregation turned ugly and the Church folded just a short time later.

By chance, I happened to run into one of those individuals with a knack for gossip at a grocery store. She recognized me and asked about my parents. Almost immediately, she began to tell me about the tragic story about how that congregation fell apart. She agreed that Satan brought down that congregation from the inside, but her story was a little different. She complained about the lack of discernment regarding individuals, leadership and a few particular doctrines. She complained that no one would listen to her “perspectives” even if she loudly explained what was going on behind the scenes. She told me that she was “astonished” at the lack of discernment in the leadership and congregation, and she finally left just before the end.

It was amazing how something so small as an opinionated voice (or group of voices) can sink a sound ship. Not only can such things sink a ship, but they can destroy the reputation of a noble work. Is it any wonder that the New Testament warns us about our tongues? In this modern medium of the Internet, our fingers can do just as much damage as our tongues. It is a terrible thought to realize that our tongues (and fingers) can help or destroy. Life and death are truly in the power of the tongue – and in the typing of our fingers. We should endeavor to make the most of every opportunity to promote Christ with our every breath. We should treat others with the same patience for which we desire to be shown toward us. And we should never forget the words of Paul in I Corinthians chapter 13:
Quote:
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”



:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/3/12 15:17Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Addendum

Chris,

That is tragic. I must admit that even considering all these things here did bring the correlations to what must happen when churches resort to the same styled things. It had me also wondering and more appreciative of pastors levels of patience with those that have such opinions on how things are handled or done, all the while not knowing maybe even their perplexity's of dealing with them all. To have to give so much attention to those that demand so much attention to their particular pet peeves or even their perceptions ... Think you hit on it right here;

Quote:
Any attempt by the leadership to reprove these believers led to addition questions of the leadership’s aptitude for “spiritual discernment.”



Perhaps I am taking that a bit differently than intended. The draw of attention to specific individuals because the questions just keep coming, the want of an explanation for the last explanation leading to yet another question and so on.

It's difficult to speak to everything here in this way, it's difficult to speak in generalities and it is really difficult to speak to individuals specifically in a setting like this. You can't win and winning isn't the desire. Just to think and consider, see our faults and failures, our contributions to the trouble, even those trying to mitigate them. It doesn't need to be laced with suspicion ... just honesty.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/3/13 0:21Profile
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re: priveledge

I appreciate the priveledge we have been given to post and discuss the Word of God, share fellowship, request prayer and glorify God for answers all in the framework of seeking revival together.

Unfortunately we Americans so often interpret "priveledges" as "rights". I do want to honor your very reasonable and wise instruction.

I thought of the verses in regard to the update of this thread and Brother Chris's post:
Galatians 5:13 - 15 (NKJV) 13For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [b]15But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! [/b]

May God help us/me not to be a part of biting and devouring, but of edifying and advancing revival.

Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2008/3/13 0:56Profile









 Re:

You know eventually the rules will be modified again and again. Why not just do away with the headache of having a forum, if it's that bad? That way you don't have to be bothered with any issues that crop up, or the whining of members being insulted or offended.

Something to consider when you modify the rules even tighter than they already are.

(In my humble opinion) :-(

 2008/3/13 18:21
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4498


 Re:

Hi Brother Compliments...

I think that the Administrator and Moderators of SermonIndex are trying to provide a forum that is different than many of the other forums available online. Many other Christian forums often permit intensely divisive discussions. But doesn't this go against our call as believers? We are admonished by God to flee from such things.

SermonIndex is unique in that the Moderators are trying to create a forum that is free from divisions that often consume many believers. This is, of course, difficult to accomplish. Each of us comes from different denominational (or non-denominational) backgrounds and stages of maturity. When someone doesn’t listen to what one believer is “certain” that the Lord has shown them, they can react with either patience or exasperation. The forum’s guidelines, I believer, are designed to prevent the latter.

There will certainly be differences of opinion in regard to doctrinal beliefs. There are, however, some things that the leadership of SermonIndex has agreed upon as being completely established by the Scriptures. They have spelled out these things in the guidelines. For instance, SermonIndex acknowledges a belief in the Trinity (or one God existent in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit), baptism by immersion, justification by faith in God alone (the evidence of this being good works), etc… There have been people here who do not embrace one or more of these things. I don’t believe that the section is meant to limit discussion about such things, but it is meant to prevent flagrant assault on such things.

I don’t think that these rules are meant to be serve as a conversational confinement, but more along the lines of protecting this web community from the dangers of division festering. I imagine that it would be difficult to find two believers who completely agree upon every single dot or tittle of personal doctrinal persuasion. However, we can still react with patience and civility toward one another. We should remember: “Death and life are in the power of the tongue” (Proverbs 18:21).

Gossip that is whispered through a particular thread or through the auspices of Private Messages, on the other hand, is contrary to the teachings of Christ. Consider the words of Jesus in Luke chapter 22:

Quote:
[b]Luke 22:52-53[/b]

52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

I am often amazed at the amounts of secret discussion that goes on in a Church setting. If people truly had legitimate cause for concern, they would have fulfilled the Scriptures and approached such individuals in private. Instead, they take it upon themselves to either slay them with allegations that are whispered in private, or they resort to public gossip. Either way, it is exactly how the Pharisees acted with Christ.

So how should believers react with one another? The Scriptures are filled with guidelines for conversation. The third chapter of James is often cited in sermons about the “taming of the tongue.” We are warned about having both “blessing and cursing” flow from the same mouth (James 3:10). Interestingly, the chapter concludes with an admonition for using wisdom in our conversations:
Quote:
[b]James 3:13-19[/b]

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

A word of gossip and dissention is often voiced in secret before it is uttered in private. If we endeavor to utter wisdom, we should realize that this wisdom is peaceable and gentle. After years at SermonIndex, I have noticed that some of those who left (either voluntarily or through compulsion) have often departed because of an inability to remain peaceable with those of whom they disagreed. Patience was sometimes only exerted toward those who agreed with them in regard to a particular matter at hand.

My wife visits the forums on occasion. She often reminds me to keep away from threads that cause divisions – particularly if little good will result from such conversation. My wife instructs me to avoid conversations where people are willing to “chop off” others from the Body of Christ – especially because of petty doctrinal differences or an unwillingness to discuss provocations in private. It is a difficult thing because I tend to get along with the believers that I meet (including those with whom I disagree). We are certainly the Body of Christ. Yet I think that it is wise to acknowledge the need for such implied or scripted guidelines. Otherwise, we would become an anarchical body that is dissected by our own assumptions or opinions.

SermonIndex is a community of Christ-seeking believers – not mere thinkers. Its purpose is made abundantly clear through the [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/about.php]About Us[/url] section and the [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14144&forum=13&3]Forum Disclaimer[/url]. We should do our best to work our conversations toward that end in a peaceable and loving manner. If we are to spend Eternity with our King and one another, shouldn’t our conversations reflect this here on Earth? God help us to reflect the character of Christ – even in our words!

Lord, please purify my tongue to reflect your loveliness!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/3/18 12:48Profile









 Re:


If we look at Act's 20, we see many important guide lines as it pertains shepherding , shepherds, and the Great Shepard. As I see it, fundamentally, this is what the moderators of Sermon Index are, and do; they Shepard, in a limited way....a literary , cyberway.
I appreciate this site, and intend to support it, as the Lord leads. It is very valuable to have these archives of Godly ministry, and discussion forums, where there is an opportunity for deep to call out to deep.

Shepherds do three basic things, as I see it, in the kingdom. 1]. they feed the church of God...2] they protect the church of God..3]they allow the Holy Spirit to be the absolute King and Lord , glorifying Jesus, over the body He redeemed.Without this oversight, in a matter of time, every Church will disintegrate, or be devoured by error. It's the devil's job; his commission to war with the offspring of the Lord.

In this case, however, you can't touch or hold your sheep, or inquiries. You only deal with persona's; Images...What people think of themselves, or project through their writing. I would imagine, being new here, that there are regular thorns in the flesh that always have an axe to grind, and many lonely, wounded people who have found a home where they feel accepted in a spiritual community. This can be wonderful, and I am surprised to find so many mature and sweet people, but it can never be a church. You can never really know the flock, nor can the flock know you, just the literary persona you project, and the spirit of your written word and ministry, and visa-verso.

Saying that, Anarchy, Ego's[ men wanting recognition and a name for themselves]confusion, and "grievous wolves" are howling at your door, desiring to destroy and tear apart, and to draw away sheep unto themselves. This is the nature of the Shepard's ministry, to deal with these controversies for the good of God's people.Feed, protect, and direct all to the feet of Jesus. The difference here is, that you are responsible for guidance, and content, not directly for the souls of those who subscribe to this site. A biblical Shepherd is responsible for the souls of those the Lord has entrusted him, and your relationship with your "sheep" is vastly limited, as I said, to ideas and persona. If someone is a repeated thorn, you reject him or her, while often a Pastor would bear long suffering, until this sheep grew out of it, or was healed,

Never the less, I admire the balance you have achieved here, and the freedom, understanding the many pits and downright Satanic assaults that must come at you. You must have order, and avoid strife, and with a "who-so-ever will come" open door policy, I sure sorcerers and witches dance in often with a biblical handle, to sew discord, or just to consume you with battle.


So, you need WISDOM, and MERCY, and the prayers of those who also are touched by this ministry, to please Jesus in this endeavour. Brother Tom





 2008/3/19 18:34









 Re:

I felt clarity and understanding as I read your history,concerning the common union of the body of Christ, and those who disdain it.

"For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgement unto himself,not discerning the Lord's body." 1 cor. 11,, vs 29

"Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go; yes, strife and reproach shall go."Proverbs, 22 vs. 10

We remember the admonition to Titus [ 3 vs 10. ] after the 1st and then 2nd admonition to a DIVIDER, [heretic], reject, knowing he is subverted [twisted] and sins, even under condemnation by his own mind.

This is the shepherds duty, the plurality, over the local body. I would submit to you, tragically, the Pastors there failed the body by not removing these cancers before they spread. It's unheard of today , but absolutely necessary. I believe that the day is upon us, that holiness returns to the true church, and we will see biblical authority re instituted that brings fear, and holiness back. Remember Ananias and Saphira. They took their deception lightly, but God saw it differently.

Thank you for this tender insight into your faith. This experience will offer comfort and counsel to all of us who are tempted to criticize and gossip, and see that this spirit is the spirit of the murderer, and encourage those the Lord has given oversight to act with wisdom to protect the body from the destroyer.


"one Body, one Lord, One Baptism, one faith, one God, one Savior above all, and through all"

Brothertom.

Thanks for this timely reminder! What a fearful thing to remember that we will be held accountable for every word we speak or type -- both in public and in private!

Quote:

Think about the ramifications. It has come into our hearing on too many occasions that a great many are turned away from participation and who knows, maybe even from this site as a whole due to the actions, conduct and behavior of some of the members. Some have just up and left altogether who once frequented these pages. There are over 4000 unique people from over 80 countries that visit this site daily, this needs to be kept in the forefront of our minds.

Please, allow the moderators to do the moderating and do not take matters into your own hands. Allow us the discretion and the patience to deal with the inevitable issues that arise. What you might find troubling, heretical, disturbing is not lost upon us but remember that it is to your own self and your conduct here that you are responsible for first and foremost.


When I was a child, our family attended a very vibrant and sound congregation. Although I wasn't a believer at the time, the Church had a profound effect on my parents and siblings. Even as a child, however, I noticed a problem with a small faction of believers who attended the congregation. They took it upon themselves to police the Church by "quietly" exposing every hint of what they felt was wrong. My mom referred to them as the "Gestapo." Of course, this gossip was “sanctified” by the ol’ guise of concern, prayer requests and the call to “expose evil.” Any attempt by the leadership to reprove these believers led to addition questions of the leadership’s aptitude for “spiritual discernment.” They criticized anyone and everyone who could not “see” the things that they thought were easily discerned. Although my family was very involved in the Church, we tended to shy away from these individuals. My mom was afraid that this little group of gossipers would one day destroy the congregation. Because of my dad’s military orders, we eventually moved away from that community and Church.

Years later, I visited the area during a college internship. I wanted to meet the pastors and let them know that I had given my heart to the Lord while in high school. Unfortunately, that congregation no longer existed. The congregation ceased to exist and the property was sold to another congregation. I asked a family friend about what happened, and she said that a small group of members spread unhealthy words and rumors throughout the congregation. This constant gossip eventually turned off new believers and recent attendees. The leadership of the congregation eventually grew tired of constantly pointing out these same believers’ actions. Eventually, they left. The Church was safely in the hands of the small “Gestapo.” They used their newfound liberty to voice their complaints and criticism of everything from particular doctrines to motives. They rejected most of the new pastors simply because of petty differences and questions about their leadership ability. Of course, this did little to help the spiritual growth of the congregation. Eventually, this small faction turned on one another. The reputation of the congregation turned ugly and the Church folded just a short time later.

By chance, I happened to run into one of those individuals with a knack for gossip at a grocery store. She recognized me and asked about my parents. Almost immediately, she began to tell me about the tragic story about how that congregation fell apart. She agreed that Satan brought down that congregation from the inside, but her story was a little different. She complained about the lack of discernment regarding individuals, leadership and a few particular doctrines. She complained that no one would listen to her “perspectives” even if she loudly explained what was going on behind the scenes. She told me that she was “astonished” at the lack of discernment in the leadership and congregation, and she finally left just before the end.

It was amazing how something so small as an opinionated voice (or group of voices) can sink a sound ship. Not only can such things sink a ship, but they can destroy the reputation of a noble work. Is it any wonder that the New Testament warns us about our tongues? In this modern medium of the Internet, our fingers can do just as much damage as our tongues. It is a terrible thought to realize that our tongues (and fingers) can help or destroy. Life and death are truly in the power of the tongue – and in the typing of our fingers. We should endeavor to make the most of every opportunity to promote Christ with our every breath. We should treat others with the same patience for which we desire to be shown toward us. And we should never forget the words of Paul in I Corinthians chapter 13:
Quote:
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”



:-)

 2008/3/20 10:50
helengreen
Member



Joined: 2008/6/15
Posts: 4


 Re: MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules

Thank you for such an amazing website!

New here to Sermon Index, read and understood the rules :-)

God bless you all, Helen

 2008/6/22 8:51Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 SermonIndex Forum

Welcome sister!

It is amazing ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/6/22 9:01Profile





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