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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What should women teach?

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MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3222
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
(Maybe eventually we’ll get to issues about teaching in church)
Diane




Diane you are not holding your breath are you? take it from Dr. Bill's teachings this would not be good. :-P


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Mr. Bill

 2007/1/9 8:34Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: For MrBillPro

Quote:
Diane you are not holding your breath are you? take it from Dr. Bill's teachings this would not be good.


I’ll gladly accept your “teachings”, MrBillPro . After all I wouldn’t mind living another day or two. Actually, I don’t have time to hold my breath. There is too much to learn yet.

Quote:
Well if I had a woman teach me how to Pray "like in Jesus name" if I did not know, would that be edifying or grow in godliness


Of course, you know that I would not be free to jump in on this, as we haven’t established if this would be “permissible” – you know, you being male, and me female.
So you’ll have to hold your breath….

or better yet…

Why not get a head start on a new topic: “What does it mean to take Jesus’ name?" I’ll maybe catch up later.

Here are some possible kick-off questions:

What does it mean to take the name of the Lord (of Christ=Christian)?
What does it mean to take the name of the Lord in vain (futile)?

What does it mean when a wife takes her husband’s name in a marriage covenant?
Can a wife take her husband’s name “in vain”?

What does it mean to pray in Jesus’ name?
Pray .. women and head coverings..

Might be a great topic. And we even might find ourselves converging back to the topic of this thread.


Diane


_________________
Diane

 2007/1/9 9:19Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: What should women teach?

Dear Diane,

Why is this issue of such importance to you at this time? Do you feel like God is calling you to teach, but someone is keeping you from doing this? Do you feel lead by God to debate this issue? Are you teaching currently, and feel convicted over this?

I am wondering what your motivation is.

In love,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2007/1/9 14:46Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Our Job

Quote:
I am wondering what your motivation is.


Hi, Beenblake,
A long time ago I promised you that I would post a thread called “God’s Job, Our Job” - to help us avoid waiting on God to do what we are supposed to be doing. This present thread topic, for me anyway, seems to tie in: learning what is OUR JOB. Indeed, women are required to teach, so it is OUR JOB to find out what God commands. If we fail, the gospel is hindered. Ex:

though by this time you aught to be teachers you need someone to teach you the elementary truths … But solid food is for the mature who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil” Heb. 5:12

And who are they who can’t teach yet and haven’t trained themselves to “distinguish good from evil”? Some of them are mentioned in the epistle to Timothy: “Weak-willed women”:

There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, ….. having a form of godliness but denying its power. … They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 2 Tim. 3:1-7 (so they are never able to teach!)

I realize that some women are offended by what Paul has to say about their gender. However, let’s admit, many women these days really are prone to follow after preacher/celebrities, televangelists (who have wormed into their homes via the TV). I wonder how many of those fellows get rich mainly by being able to convince weak-willed women to send in their donations (playing on their guilt).

Even from my own observation, I know that there are women who are ever- seeking truth, but never really learning. They attend every special church or ladies function that is around. But they never think about their responsibility to teach the important matters of the Gospel in the context of relationships. They can’t, because, really, they fail to accept the Gospel. Paul was quite insightful.

Consider this compliment that Paul gave to Timothy’s mother and grandmother:

“from infancy you have known the scriptures.” 2 Tim. 3:15

What could this mean? Maybe there is something to be said in the quote, “The one who rocks the cradle rules the world.”

Did you notice that I embolded the word “homes” earlier? In Bible times religious life was centered in the home, but now our institutions along with their paid professionals have become the center. So of course, the Biblical understanding and value of teaching in the home has been usurped.

Luther may not have spoken the best about women, but at least he said this: “The woman in the home can do more with the children with one finger than the husband with both fists.” Durant, The Story of Civilization Vol.6, The Reformation.

What does scripture say about the role of training, teaching, disciplining in the home setting?
Diane


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Diane

 2007/1/10 21:19Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Silence who?

The short epistle of Titus is packed with insight on subject of teaching – right from the onset: “... knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness …” 1:1 The final words of the letter reinforce this aim: “Our people must learn to devote themselves to doing what is good in order that they may provide for daily necessities and not live unproductive lives.” 3:14

People whose teaching does not achieve godly living “…reject the truth… have corrupted minds and consciences, stimulate “foolish controversies” and arguments.. and ruin households ..” . These we must learn to recognize, and the church leaders must “refute” 1:9, “rebuke sharply” 1:13 “avoid” 3:9 “warn” 3:10 and “have nothing to do with” 3:10. These ones “must be silenced”.1:11

Of course divisive people don’t necessarily appear divisive. It may be a long time before the fruit of their faulty doctrines becomes apparent, maybe long after they are gone: The unity of the Body becomes damaged. Legalism is a good example. That is the issue addressed in Titus 1:10 regarding those who “ruin whole households” and “must be silenced”. Our present day church is littered with the fruit of legalism: self-centeredness, competitiveness, arguments over detail of law, calloused hearts, pride, emotional illness, shame, addictions, bitterness. It all leads to fractured relationships, broken marriages, church splits etc. I believe that these problems are rooted, not only in the sin nature, but also in the cradle where teaching begins.

Godliness is the outcome of “a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life…” 1:2

According to the epistle to Titus, how does good teaching in the Body foster unity and relational harmony? How does it help us achieve God’s purposes for the church?

Diane


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Diane

 2007/1/11 10:18Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

Diane,

You made some very imteresting points in what a woman should teach. From your posts I understand you to be saying women should teach other females. And that is a big mission field, one that men cannot adequately minister to alone. If females account for over 50% of the population, we have a BIG job to do.

Titus tells us older sisters to teach the younger women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, good, obedient to their husbands - Titus 2:4,5. Another thing one could easily add to this list is to teach other females to think with their brain, their intellect not their emotions. We females have this problem of thinking emotionally and we get into all kinds of trouble for it. Methinks this is one reason why church leadership is entrusted to males. God made us this way and sometimes it may help in raising children, but we can learn to think objectively...takes work and the Holy Spirit to do so.

If we have such a huge job ahead of us, why on earth would any female want to compete with a male in church leadership?

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2007/1/11 21:40Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Diane,

I know this post comes much later, but I didn't see your post until now. That is a bit odd.

You must know that I am not against women teaching. I believe that Christ is the Head of the Church, and it He alone who determines the "job" of anyone therein. Paul was a servant of Christ, and while He spoke with great authority as granted by Christ, we live to serve Jesus and not Paul.

I have asked you this all because if you are fighting for the "rights" of women in the Church, your fight is a unwarranted one unless Christ has asked this of you. The only thing we need to be concerned with is that we are seeking the will of the Lord. If the Lord has asked us to do anything, He will make our course clear. If He has asked any woman to teach, He will open the door for her. And if the Devil attempts to come, through Christ's own, and stop this woman, then Christ will respond accordingly. He will judge the man for stopping the woman from doing His will. The woman only needs to be concerned with one thing: did she obey the Lord?

The only thing any of us, men and women alike, need to be concerned with is the will of the Lord. The big misconception that many people have is that the will of the Lord for everything has been outlined in the bible. Of course, if this were true, then Paul would be a lair, because He says that we can know the Lord's will by the renewing of the mind as established in Romans 12:2.

The only way we can know the Lord's will is through unity to Christ. The only way to be united to Christ is by sacrifice. We must give up everything so that Christ can have complete reign over us. When Christ reigns in us, we do the Lord's will because we are controlled by Christ. In this, our mind is renewed.

I tell you all this because this is all you need to be concerned with. If you are doing the Lord's will, then you are in obedience. If you are not, then you are in disobedience. The only thing we need to be concerned with is obedience by being controlled by Christ. He is the vine, we are the branches. We can do nothing apart from Him.

So again I ask, what is your motivation for this? Are you doing this because it is the Lord's will?

In love,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2007/1/25 10:33Profile









 Re:

Some interesting points in this thread. Especially interesting personally because I was a woman minister! The Lord brought me out of it, but not because of this particular question.

Maybe a few thoughts, (some aspects have been already touched on):

1. The central issue is what is in our hearts, not what or when or where, or if women are to teach. Are we seeking to usurp authority, or simply to fulfil what the Lord is leading us to do? Or do we have some other "hidden agenda" such as "needing to be needed" (been there, done that - but the Lord took away the T shirt and I'm slowly learning to do without it!)

Similar questions could equally be asked of a man who aspires to be a teacher.

2. Teaching the Bible (even a woman before men)doesn't necessarily go together with authority in the church. I saw my ministry rather as that of a mother who has authority to feed the little ones on the "milk of the Word". There was no desire for any other kind of authority, let alone be some kind of "boss" figure, only to exercise a gift from God for the benefit of others (at the time I was unaware of the "ulterior motive" in my heart).

3. Although I believe it is usually more fitting and scriptural for leadership to be male, there are exceptions in Scripture. Someone pointed out that of all the Judges in the book of Judges only one was a woman. To show that it shouldn't be the norm. But that one shows that it is possible for a woman to lead - even a nation in Deborah's case.

An interesting example is in the account of Martha and Mary. Mary sat at Jesus' feet and listened to His word.

Was Martha shocked as well as over-busy? Sitting at the Master's feet was putting oneself in the position of a disciple. It was the custom for disciples of a particular rabbi to then go out and preach to the people, with the authority of their master, what they had learned.

Horrors! A WOMAN teaching! In that society?!!!

Yet Jesus refused to condemn or correct her.

I suspect that Mary didn't stop to think that she was upsetting all the social conventions - she just wanted to get as close to Jesus as possible and listen to what He had to say.

So her heart was right, whatever her actions...

 2007/1/26 19:58
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: to teach or to be

Hi, Beenblake. I almost forgot about this thread. Actually I started it, to get away from the useless tendencies to debate the “if” and simply see what it actually is we should be doing. Frankly I have no need to discuss the “if”, because my life belongs to God, and he’ll do with me what he wishes. I trust him not to lead me where I shouldn’t be. (Oh, I just remember, I do have more material to post here, but will have to dig it up first)

Quote:
The big misconception that many people have is that the will of the Lord for everything has been outlined in the bible.

If only it was! Then we’d never have to rely on God. We could chart our way through our own lives according to this map and still be in charge of ourselves. This is one reason why I don’t put much weight in the “Deborah” example. That was HER calling, and it cannot become a deciding factor in MY choices. God is my final authority, not Biblical examples.

Quote:
The central issue is what is in our hearts, not what or when or where, or if women are to teach.

Littlegift, you seem to be a few steps ahead of me. Thank you! Really, as I search for the “what’ in scripture, that is exactly what becomes very evident: It’s not about the what or the where, but about Chrislikeness. THAT becomes our principle message. The mechanics of it is very, very, very secondary. You must have seen the reality of that through your own experiences.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2007/1/26 22:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The big misconception that many people have is that the will of the Lord for everything has been outlined in the bible.

If only it was! Then we’d never have to rely on God. We could chart our way through our own lives according to this map and still be in charge of ourselves. This is one reason why I don’t put much weight in the “Deborah” example. That was HER calling, and it cannot become a deciding factor in MY choices. God is my final authority, not Biblical examples.


Hi Diane. That's true, I just used it to show that a woman who does have such a calling, if it IS truly from God, doesn't have to be ashamed or doubt it.


Quote:
The central issue is what is in our hearts, not what or when or where, or if women are to teach.

Littlegift, you seem to be a few steps ahead of me. Thank you! Really, as I search for the “what’ in scripture, that is exactly what becomes very evident: It’s not about the what or the where, but about Chrislikeness. THAT becomes our principle message. The mechanics of it is very, very, very secondary. You must have seen the reality of that through your own experiences.

Diane


As long as I'm not using this forum as an outlet for frustrated preaching tendancies, rather than to His glory.

Ah well, "sigh" Search my heart, Lord. Here we go again. LOL

Jeannette (LG)

 2007/1/27 17:53





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