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letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Rev 12 views

Just wanted to see the different views that are out there. Who or what is:

1) the woman
2) the man child
3) the woman's fleeing
4) Satan's casting from heaven
5) the woman's wings
6) going out of Satan to make war with the seed

I am thinking that the woman is the church, the bride. The child is Christ. The fleeing is the obediant path of the church led of the Holy Spirit. The casting down of Satan is the tribulation. The wings are the rapture. Satan's invasion is against the Lord and his saints.

I am sure there are many who would disagree, I would like to hear some other views. Thx.


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Hal Bachman

 2007/1/6 13:38Profile
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 Re: Rev 12 views


bro LGB

the woman is most likely Israel (12 stars, 12 tribes of Israel) it could not be the Church since the Church didn't give birth to Christ but rather it's the other way around. We know the man-child is Christ because it is He who has been destined to rule the world with a Rod of Iron:see here in Rev 19

[b]14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.[/b]

also He is up there with the Father until the time comes for Him to rule.

we know the dragon to be satan and the third of the stars to be those angels which were cast out of heaven with him. interestingly enough we refer to him as prince of the air see ephesians 2:2

[b]Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience[/b]

so we know he rules from the second heaven, ie the sky. it seems he has access to the throne still because only later on in chapt 12 is he cast down to the earth itself and find himself and his angels without place in heaven. seems to me demons can't be these fallen angels because they inhabit the space above us and have no need for bodies.

the wings can't be the rapture because the woman clearly isn't the church for one thing. additionally, most people who believe in the rapture see it as being raptured into heaven as opposed to the wilderness into which the woman is flown. i'm not sure what the things are but i think it's great speed. the woman goes into a place prepared for her in the wilderness where she stays for about 3.5 yrs. it seems this is a place on earth to which Israel will flee the persecution of the enemy. the other ones on which are persecuted seem to me to be those who don't run to this place of safety, perhaps gentiles?


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Farai Bamu

 2007/1/6 21:47Profile
letsgetbusy
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 Re:

I was thinking that the church would include the bloodline to Christ, ie: house of David, descendant of Abraham, that birthed the Son of Man. The human line to, and spiritual seed of, Jesus.

I had thought before that it could have been Israel, though. Do you not believe that the OT saints are part of the church (just curious)?

It seemed that the speaking of His birth was His human birth, and the swallowing of the dragon was Satan's attempt to kill Him, and then His ascension after death and resurrection being the 'caught up'.

I appreciate your views.


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Hal Bachman

 2007/1/6 22:52Profile
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 Re: Rev 12 views

Note: We begin a new Great sign.
Chapter 12
Note: this sign fits together with in the seven seals, and starts with the beginning of the nation of Israel.
[b]Rev 12:1[/b] [color=990000]And a great sign was seen in the heavens, a woman having been clothed with the sun, and the moon was underneath her feet; and on her head a crown of twelve stars[/color]

Quote:
Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Note: This sign is referring to Israel and is a reference to Josephs’ dream, but, accept for having eleven stars, this has twelve which would include Joseph.
[b]:2[/b] [color=990000]And she being with child cried, being in labor, and having been distressed to be delivered.[/color]
Note: this Child is a reference to the Messiah.

[b]:4[/b] [color=990000]and his tail drew the third part of the stars of the heaven, and he throws them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman being about to bear, so that when she bears he might devour her child.[/color]
Quote:
Mat. 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Note: This is the reason that Joseph had to bring Mary and the Child to Egypt.

[b]:5[/b] [color=990000]And she bore a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron staff. And her child was caught away to God, and to His throne.[/color]
Quote:
[b]Rev. 2:27[/b] [b]Psalm 2:9[/b] Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. [b]Acts 1:9[/b] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Note: This is the ascension of Christ. This scripture passage goes back with more details in v. 7-14

[b]:6[/b] [color=990000]And [u]the woman fled into the wilderness[/u], where she had a place, it having been prepared from God, [i]that there they might nourish her[/i] a thousand two hundred and sixty days.[/color]
This is the same as [b]Rev 12:14[/b] [color=990000]And [u]two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness[/u], to her place, [i]where she is nourished there[/i] a time, and times, and half a time, away from the serpent's face.[/color]
John was carried away to this wilderness and found hre riding the beast in V.3
Quote:
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


Verses 7 to 11 refere to the First seal, the white horse, Jesus' victory on the Cross.
[b]:9[/b] [color=990000]And the great dragon was cast out, [b]the old serpent[/b] being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world [b]was cast out[/b] onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.[/color]
Note: This is one of the victories of the cross. It is saying that Satan can not accuse us before our God any more because he is cast out or is thrown down; all he can do is accuse us before our faces.
Quote:
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: [b]now shall the prince of this world be cast out.[/b]


Note: This next verse to verse 17 is represented as the second seal. The red horse, being the color of blood which is the start of martyrs for Christ.
[b]:12[/b] [color=990000]Because of this, be glad, the heavens and you that dwell in them. Woe to the ones dwelling on the earth, and in the sea, because the devil came down to you having great anger, knowing that he has a little time!
[b]:13[/b] And when the dragon saw that he was cast out onto the earth, he pursued the woman who bore the male.
[b]:14[/b] And two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness, to her place, where she is nourished there three and a half years, away from the serpent's face.[/color]
Quote:
:12 Because of this, be glad, the heavens and you that dwell in them. Woe to the ones dwelling on the earth, and in the sea, because the devil came down to you having great anger, knowing that he has a little time!

[b]:15[/b] [color=990000]And the serpent threw water out of his mouth like a river after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried off by the river.[/color]
Note: Water is an example of the Scripture in therefore, this water could be false doctrine or lies against Israel like anti-Semitism. This comes from the devil.

 2007/1/6 23:05Profile
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 Re:

bro LGB

Quote:
I had thought before that it could have been Israel, though. Do you not believe that the OT saints are part of the church (just curious)?



no i don't think so because they were under a different covenant as a result none of them went to heaven before Christ died but went after He rose. now this is assuming the Church is defined as those who believed on Christ for their salvation.

Quote:
It seemed that the speaking of His birth was His human birth, and the swallowing of the dragon was Satan's attempt to kill Him, and then His ascension after death and resurrection being the 'caught up'.



that about sums it up i think


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Farai Bamu

 2007/1/7 0:32Profile
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 Re:

bro Logic
bless God for what He has said through you! i read the chapter and thought of joseph and mary running off into the desert to escape herod with Jesus to egypt. how long did they stay there for i wonder...perhaps it was 3.5 yrs? the word says she stayed in the wilderness for about that long. there is another period of 3.5 yrs in which this same woman is carried on wings to a place in the wilderness and it seems that these are 2 separate events. the latter is speaking more of Israel because she did bring forth the messiah.and she is said to be at this place for 3.5 yrs, ie a time, 2 times and half a time. i don't believe that the woman carried by the wings is the same one who rides the beast (unless i misunderstood your post) coz in both instances the dragon is mad at her.

Quote:
John was carried away to this wilderness and found hre riding the beast in V.3



i disagree however with the idea that the first seal is the work of the cross or that the rider of that horse is Christ. this rider is given a bow and he goes forth to conquer. the only weapon in scripture Christ is associated with is a sword. He will returns with a sword, also he will come against the church of Pergamum with a sword also.

the only member of the Godhead associated with a bow, is God the Father.

from Lamentations 2
[b]The Lord hath swallowed up all the habitations of Jacob, and hath not pitied: he hath thrown down in his wrath the strong holds of the daughter of Judah; he hath brought them down F6 to the ground: he hath polluted the kingdom and the princes thereof. 3 He hath cut off in his fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about. 4 He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all that were pleasant F7 to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire. [/b]

lamentations 3 12 also makes mention of this.

now matthew henry's commentary and indeed a few others say that this first rider is Christ but Christ received no crown while He was on earth nor did the gospel go forth by force, rather it suffered violence. now this crown/wreath which is given to this rider is not the same one which Christ returns wearing.also if we look at the context of the following 3 riders we see that they are to do with judgment, why would this one be any different? perhaps one may wonder how the enemy could be associated (by the way i think this first rider is antichrist) with a white horse? well he can make himself to be as an angel of light. so as surely as Christ will come riding in on a white horse, satan will so send antichrist to deceive many who see him coming and believe him to be Christ when he is not.

Quote:
Note: Water is an example of the Scripture in therefore, this water could be false doctrine or lies against Israel like anti-Semitism. This comes from the devil.



so is this in reference to how we are to be washed in the word? if God's scripture is the word and is also called water, how is it that the enemy's equivelent would also be called water? in the Revelation, water also refers to peoples and nations (ie the ones in Rev 17 on which the whore sits) so it could be that these could be agents of the enemy chasing after Israel as she flees to the desert oasis prepared for her in rev 12...kinda like Egypt when Israel was going to the promised land?then again water also is just water as in the seas, rivers etc.

some things to ponder?


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Farai Bamu

 2007/1/7 2:07Profile





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