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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Forgive me Mr. Krispy, and what about the demons?

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jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Forgive me Mr. Krispy, and what about the demons?

Hi all,

I am relativly new on the site and have posted a couple of responses and a thread- Mr. Krispy, I am sorry for minimizing the the importance of the first Gulf war, and I ask for your forgiveness, as I did not write that post in love but for the sake of divisiveness. I repent of that pridefulness and thank the church for holding dear to the truth.

Now i have a question;

can anyone tell me where demons came from? I know that many believe that they are fallen angels, but they seem to have different charcteristics, my grandfather says that the Holy Spirit revealed to him through the scriptures that God created nations of people before Adam, Satan ruled over them, and God destroyed them. Then their souls became the demons of the bible.

I am not disposed to believe this, it sounds like a variation of the Gap theory, but I am still wondering about the demons origin.

In humbleness and love, Joe

 2006/12/28 4:26Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re: Forgive me Mr. Krispy, and what about the demons?

To clarify, I am open to all responses, this thread isnot exclusive to Mr. krispy :-D

 2006/12/28 4:45Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re: Forgive me Mr. Krispy, and what about the demons?

Hi Joe,

I really don't know the answer to that question, but what your grandfather said sounds very much like what Arnold Murray of Shepherd's Chapel teaches.


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Cindy

 2006/12/28 12:28Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Forgive me Mr. Krispy, and what about the demons?

Hi Joe ...

You might find this link interesting as this preacher shares much of my own reasonings/belief on the subject of "demons" ...

[b]THE ORIGIN OF DEMONS[/b]
http://www.tbm.org/origindemons.htm

i've written a novel i believe led of our Lord to, in answer of such questions about the origins of ...

- Satan
- fallen angels
- those wicked angels who left heaven to cohabit with women
- the nephilim
- the origin of demons
- Sheol
- Hades
- Gehenna
- Tartarus

The novel is entitled;

[b]THE CALLED[/b]
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1597814644/ref=olp_product_details/002-9215445-6184867?ie=UTF8&seller=

[b]"THE CALLED" - by Rahman Reuben ... Chapters 1 to 3 ...
(here you can view the controversy it caused on SI)[/b]
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2289&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go

From it i also believe that our Lord is about to embark me on a mission to revisit all these subjects to the mind of His saints, whom so many haven't the slightest idea of the difference so how can we really be operating in the full capacity of Eph. 6:12 - and also as important a proper explanation of the dire consequences of the afterlife to the unsaved in this time of grace?

Also you might find some food for thought from this thread ...

[b]With No OT Explanations How Did NT Jews Understand NT Descriptions of Hades, Gehenna & Tartarus? ...[/b]
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13837&forum=36&8

There are some here on SI who may blast me for this post because the info is based from a non canonical book ... But i find it most interesting that Jews and those converted to Christianity in Jesus time who were most familiar with 1 Enoch had no such questions about the differences between fallen angels and demons, where they came from, and in what capacities the operate ... History shows that apparently it had some value back then, as history also shows the first century church to be far more savy on these subjects than our present alledgedly more enlightened Body ...

Just my own humble opinion ... :-D

 2007/1/2 16:03Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: Forgive me Mr. Krispy, and what about the demons?

Bro jl,

I do believe, as well as every solid Christian (in my eyes, of course) I have asked or heard from, that demons come from the fallen angels of Genesis 6.

I am undecided/unclear about whether they were one and the same (or in part) as the Nephilim and/or giants that the Israelites destroyed (the theory that the demons had bodies (half-fallen angel/half-human) and were disembodied upon their death). I haven't heard a Scripture that would completely validate or unvalidate the idea. I think only the fallen angels that chose wives created giants, while most fallen angels chose to inhabit human bodies (possess). Any possibility brings up questions we can't answer from Scripture.

Yes, the theory you are talking about, the fall of Satan prior to the creation of the garden, I have heard it called the Pre-Adamite rebellion, and it does assume either the Gap Theory or the Day-Age Theory (each creation day represents a larger period of time). The reason that it is un-Scriptural is that Ezekiel states that Satan was 'perfect' in the garden of God until iniquity was found in him. Genesis says that everything was good when God created it. Satan and the angels must have fallen after the creation of the garden, and after everything was 'good'.

If you, however, don't believe that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan, then there is no real evidence (that I have heard of) that supports or negates the pre-Adamite fall/rebellion.

If one's theory is that the fallen angels are not the demons we encounter today, then I would be interested to hear (from that viewpoint):

1) the origin of demons
2) the definition of Satan's angels Matt 25:41 / Rev 12:9
3) the difference in demons and the angels reserved in chains from Jude 1:6-

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day


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Hal Bachman

 2007/1/6 13:22Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro LGB

Quote:
while most fallen angels chose to inhabit human bodies (possess). Any possibility brings up questions we can't answer from Scripture.



angels don't need bodies and it seems only a portion of them put on flesh and left their posts in the heavenlies. those are locked up in a dark place somewhere till the day of judgment.

there are some which clearly are still in the heavenlies, hence principalities and powers of the air, and excercise influence on the earth in the enemy's interest. eg the prince of persia in daniel who resists gabriel who then is helped by another prince called Michael who is chief prince of Israel.

Quote:
1) the origin of demons
2) the definition of Satan's angels Matt 25:41 / Rev 12:9
3) the difference in demons and the angels reserved in chains from Jude 1:6-



if satan's angels are with him in the heavenlies and demons are on earth, there seems to be a difference in the nature of those 2 kinds of beings. if you have dealt with them, you find most are brutish and violent. see the accounts in the scriptures as to how demons behaved. this is probably no different than the nephilim who went about killing people and doing harm to them.

satans angels are the fallen ones, the one third who left heaven with him. these are much more cunning and not into the business of possessing people as demons are.

the angels which are in chains are chained now and they are just that angels, namely the ones who left their stations and put on flesh. the idea that these beings have different names clearly says to me that they are very different.

interestingly enough, the books of enoch talk about this and the reference that jude makes has no source in the canon as we know it but it seems the jews of the day knew what he was talking about from the books of enoch...incidentally those books are canon in the eastern church...


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Farai Bamu

 2007/1/6 22:05Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

I heard Chip Ingram on a Christian radio show, he has a book called The Invisible War, I have just started to read it.

God bless, Joe

 2007/1/7 2:22Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Quote:
incidentally those books are canon in the eastern church...


Isn't it something how the early churches, east and west divided? As i understand the east stayed more closely to the jewish roots, like celebrating the jewish feasts and calander and such, where as the west (rome) slowly evolved more toward what we have today in respects of a more catholic flavor. Would that be a correct?


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D.Miller

 2007/1/7 4:38Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

hey bro Dohzman

Quote:
Isn't it something how the early churches, east and west divided? As i understand the east stayed more closely to the jewish roots, like celebrating the jewish feasts and calander and such, where as the west (rome) slowly evolved more toward what we have today in respects of a more catholic flavor. Would that be a correct?



it is...very interesting indeed. the western church has had a much greater influence on world affairs it seems. i've seen some of the dress of the priests in the eastern churches and it looks similar to what jewish priests wear. They did indeed stay closer to the Jewish roots. i wonder what God was/is up to concerning this divide... :smart:


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Farai Bamu

 2007/1/7 12:34Profile





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