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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Question for those who don't belive in a rapture

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roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
bro Gracealone


Hey bro Ironman, I believe it's sis Gracealone. :-P


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patrick heaviside

 2006/12/28 0:09Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

it is BRO Roaringlamb right?
so it is SIS Gracealone...looked at her profile and discovered that...why didn't anyone tell me!!! :-P sorry sis


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Farai Bamu

 2006/12/28 13:26Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Yep I am a bro, and may our Lord bless you and keep you today. Grace and peace to you.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/12/28 13:30Profile
GraceAlone
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Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

its ok it happens :-)


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Kristy

 2007/1/8 9:59Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

For someone to interpret a pre-tribulation rapture from Revelation 3:10 they must view the different churches and being different church ages.

I for one do not see the Bible making this distinction between the churches when I read Revelation. On the contrary, there have been Philadelphian church's, Laodecian church's, Smyrna churches and etc. throughout the entire Christian age.

How do we not know that those church messages were not specifically for the time period in which they were written?

 2007/1/8 12:12Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

brethren

Quote:
How do we not know that those church messages were not specifically for the time period in which they were written?



the fact that those people then were the Church, and we still are the Church says we're subject to the same judgments if we are guilty of the same thing...let he who hath ear hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches...


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Farai Bamu

 2007/1/8 12:32Profile
iansmith
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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: Question for those who don't belive in a rapture

Some of my dearest Christian role models didn't/don't believe in a rapture in the sense that much of the Western church does... I really think the best argument put forth against a 'rapture' in the sense that we know it was articulated by Corrie Ten Boom.


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Ian Smith

 2007/1/8 12:44Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

The popular interpretation of these verses speaking to Philadelphia are as follows:
- The churches addressed are different ages of the church.
- The church at Philadelphia is the present church age because the rapture is soon approaching.
- God will keep the present church age from the coming tribulation because 'they are not appointed to wrath'.

This is reading into the scripture something that it does not say. Here are some facts about the church at Philadelphia:
- They have little power
- They have kept Christ's word
- They have not denied Christ's name
- God will make those of the synagogue of Satan bow before the church
- They will be kept from the trial coming upon the whole world to try those on the earth.

Nothing is mentioned about a rapture. Only those with a preconceived notion of a rapture will see a rapture discussed in these verses.

These verses mean exactly what they say. There was a church in Philadelphia who persevered through great trouble because God kept them safe through the hour of trial.

 2007/1/8 14:10Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

The Shepherd of the sheep will not send them to go over a cliff, unless he is at the bottom to catch them, which teaches them to trust in Him. Only the sheep that are not listening to the Shepherd will crash on the rocks. "My sheep hear my voice"

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/1/8 15:35Profile
Xtian
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Joined: 2006/6/4
Posts: 31
Colorado

 Re: Question for those who don't belive in a rapture

Quote:

GraceAlone wrote:
Rev 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

For those who don't believe in a rapture (which I don't think is a big deal) what do you say to this verse? Only this verse so far!



Interesting question.

I used to believe in a future rapture, Anti-Christ, etc but after a lot of studying I changed my stance. Now I do believe in the second coming of Christ, so I guess for me its a matter of "when" all this happens/happened. As for the verse you quoted, if you notice the word "world" you will find an interesting definition...

G3625
οἰκουμένη
oikoumenē
oy-kou-men'-ay
Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire: - earth, world.

If you look at Luke 2:1 you will see that when Caesar Augustus decreed a census of the "world" the same word oikoumene is used. IOW a tax was going to be instituted for the whole Roman empire, not the entire globe of the Earth. When the term "world" was used by Rome it was refering to the whole of the Roman Empire (the conquered lands where Roman was in power).


Also the word "Earth" its defined as...

G1093
γῆ
gē
ghay
Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part, or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): - country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.

Again this points not to the entire globe but to a section, part or region of the land, which I believe better indicates the whole Roman Empire (part of the globe and its inhabitants, and not the entire globe/earth).

At any rate it doesnt matter to me as much as it used to - we know who wins in the end. If there is a rapture thats great (take me early... yipee!), if not, then I continue to live as Christ (and eventually, die is gain). Good stuff regardless.

What I do find disturbing with most "rapture-ists" (along with most other christians) is that they do not witness to the lost souls around them (despite the command for us to do so). We are commanded to witness, yet most Christians would rather "wait" for the rapture, sit in church and "wait upon the Lord" so to speak). Its strange that when I was a future rapture-ist I didnt witness as much as I do today (now I actively witness and open air preach on a regular basis).

Anyway studying up on end times theology is interesting, but lets not forget the commands of He who saved us (he who loves me, obeys my commands).


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Steve

 2007/1/17 10:13Profile





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