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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Did God forsake Christ on the cross?

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beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Did God forsake Christ on the cross?

Matthew 27:46 (All scripture taken from NIV)
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

While hanging on the cross, Jesus cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Many have interpreted this text incorrectly thinking that Jesus was forsaken by His father. However, was He?

Many years prior to Jesus, King David cried these same words as recorded in the book of Psalms. In verse 22:1, David cried, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?" and in verse 42:9, David says, "I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

If we take these verses at face value we might assume God had forsaken both Christ and David. Why else would they make such pleas? However, when we read further and consider the entire scripture in context, we realize that God is a God of redemption.

In Psalms 22 verses 3 and 4, David says "Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them." We see that after his cry, the tone begins to change. David refutes his own cry to God saying, "yet," and then introducing the trustworthiness of God. In the past, David's desecendents trusted in God and He delivered them. Would not God deliver David also?

Later in the chapter, David says, "For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help." Here it is quite obvious that David is referring to Jesus in later years. David speaks of "the suffering of the afflicted one." In addition, it says that God has listened to his cry for help.

Who has suffered much and died that God has saved and redeemed? It is Jesus, the son of God. While on the cross, Jesus cried out to His father. However, His pleas were heard. Though Christ died, He was resurrected. Christ was not forsaken. His body was not left to rot and decay. Rather, God redeemed Him from the earth and raised Him to a new glorious state. Jesus was not forsaken. Christ was raised.

Jesus knew He would be raised. He predicted His death and resurrection. Why then would Christ cry out and say, "Why have you forsaken me?"

This is made obvious in Psalms 42:10-11 which says, "My bones suffer mortal agony as my foes taunt me, saying to me all day long, 'Where is your God?' 11 Why are you downcast, O my soul? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God."

We see at this point that the soul of Christ was at odds with Him. He was a human being. His cry was a sign of His mortality. Christ, though He was God in full, felt the weakness of being human being born as a man. If we remember earlier in the garden at gethsemane, Jesus said, "The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." This truth reached it's full climax on the cross when Jesus cried out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" The cry of Jesus was the cry of His fleshly soul. It is all our cries when we suffer. We are at odds with a weak body.

This was again spoken of by the prophet Isaiah in regards to Israel. In Isaiah 49:13-15, "Shout for joy, O heavens; rejoice, O earth; burst into song, O mountains! For the Lord comforts his people and will have compassion on his afflicted ones. But Zion said, 'The Lord has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me.''Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!'"

In our lives, we may experience or encounter suffering or death. We may feel like God has forsaken us. We may cry out in our soul, "Why God have you forsaken me?" However, we must remember that Christ was raised. God did not forsake us. He did not forget us. Instead, He has saved us through the resurrection of His Holy One. We will not suffer the grave. Upon our death, we will join with Christ in Paradise.

In the name of Christ,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/12/6 9:54Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2647
Nottingham, England

 Re: Did God forsake Christ on the cross?

Quote: Christ, though He was God, in full, felt the weakness of a human being born as a man.

How is it that in this thread, you state that Christ was God, yet in another thread, you say the Trinity is a false and man-made doctrine?

I'll leave that with you.

 2006/12/6 10:13Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: Did God forsake Christ on the cross?

Quote:
Many have interpreted this text incorrectly thinking that Jesus was forsaken by His father.



Friend, I must concur with the "many" in this case, and proport that our Lord was, indeed, forsaken by God for a time and delivered unto death as he bore the sins of the world. Matthew Henry also seems to agree that Christ was forsaken by God on the cross:

"Note that our Lord Jesus was, in his sufferings, for a time, forsaken by his Father. So he saith himself, who we are sure was under no mistake concerning his own case. Not that the union between the divine and human nature was in the least weakened or shocked; no, he was now by the eternal Spirit offering himself: nor as if there were any abatement of his Father’s love to him, or his to his Father; we are sure that there was upon his mind no horror of God, or despair of his favour, nor any thing of the torments of hell; but his Father forsook him; that is, First, He delivered him up into the hands of his enemies, and did not appear to deliver him out of their hands. He let loose the powers of darkness against him, and suffered them to do their worst, worse than against Job. Now was that scripture fulfilled (Job 16:11), God hath turned me over into the hands of the wicked; and no angel is sent from heaven to deliver him, no friend on earth raised up to appear for him. Secondly, He withdrew from him the present comfortable sense of his complacency in him. When his soul was first troubled, he had a voice from heaven to comfort him (Jn. 12:27, 28); when he was in his agony in the garden, there appeared an angel from heaven strengthening him; but now he had neither the one nor the other. God hid his face from him, and for awhile withdrew his rod and staff in the darksome valley. God forsook him, not as he forsook Saul, leaving him to an endless despair, but as sometimes he forsook David, leaving him to a present despondency. Thirdly, He let out upon his soul an afflicting sense of his wrath against man for sin. Christ was made Sin for us, a Curse for us; and therefore, though God loved him as a Son, he frowned upon him as a Surety. These impressions he was pleased to admit, and to waive that resistance of them which he could have made; because he would accommodate himself to this part of his undertaking, as he had done to all the rest, when it was in his power to have avoided it."

- Taken from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible, vol. 5, pg. 347.

Beenblake, in light of your other posts that I've read, I'm a bit curious to know more of your theology. Are you affilitated with the UPC? Seventh Day Adventists? Just humbly trying to get a better understanding where you're coming from in terms of beliefs.

Thanks!

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/6 10:32Profile









 Re:

Big ditto with Paul, and with Matt Henry.

Blake, I think you would benefit from a Matthew Henry Commentary. Dont get the concise version of it, get the whole enchilada. It's wonderful, I love it. It's really the only commentary I like, and it is rich and deep. I think it would help you with some of your understanding of the Bible... I know it has mine. And I'm learning everyday.

Krispy

 2006/12/6 10:50









 Re: Did God forsake Christ on the cross?

Blake... did you write that article? If not, who authored it? It doesnt seem like your writing. Please let us know...

Krispy

 2006/12/6 11:03
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Yea, Krisp is right. Make sure you get the [i]unabridged[/i] commentary. Next to Gurnall's "The Christian in Complete Armour" (also unabridged), the Matthew Henry works are the most profitble resources in my entire library. Also, the complete sermons and treatises of Matthew Henry are publised in a separate two-volume set. They are fantastic, so rich and solid and utterly impregnated with scripture.

Did you know that Whitefield read the entire unabridged commentaries of Henry on his knees multiple times? I'm not quite at that stage yet!

Brother Paul

(edit) I edited out my closing remarks as to avoid confusion that I hold Matthew Henry equal to scripture in terms of inspiration and infallibility. I do not! They, are, however, wonderful tools given to us by God the Holy Ghost through this holy and yielded Puritan. I thank God for yielded men and their edifying fruits to help us draw closer and have a more perfect knowledge of God our Savior.


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/6 11:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:
They are a wonderful gift from God



Amen... while obviously not the inspired Word of God, his commentaries are certainly a gift to us from God to help us understand His Word in a much more meaningful way.

Spurgeon said every preacher should read all the way thru Matthew Henry's Commentary at least once.

Krispy

 2006/12/6 11:27
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

The promoters I have read of the new concept that Christ was NOT forsaken on the Christ as I understand them are Hank Hanagraff and Bob Passantino (among some others). There are some excellent quotes that have been brought out by opposers of this new view that show the overwhelming majority of Christian writers since the New Testament period believed Christ was in some sense 'forsaken'. I had shortly bought into the new view until I realized how it was a new error some years ago. Sad thing is it has been promoted in some of our colleges as if the old view is blasphemy and heresy.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/12/6 12:14Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Ron Bailey has a teaching on this also. He has a few of them. This one is about [url=http://mp3.biblebase.com/mp3/RonBailey/hi/ThreePrayers05_Calvary.MP3]The Prayer From The Cross[/url]


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/12/6 12:38Profile
deathdancer
Member



Joined: 2005/11/19
Posts: 33
South Africa

 Re: Did God forsake Christ on the cross?

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
The King James ...What a strange verse.

Jesus Christ was perfect and without sin..Why would the perfect be made perfect?Has this something to do with the words .'And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

Did God the father ,who raised Jesus Christ, not put him to the ultimate and only remaining test ,of perfect obedience .Jesus Christ became man,and although he had the power to resurrect himself, he chose to trust in his father.

Did Jesus Christ give up all ,including his divinity to save man? The immortal giving up immortality so that he may bring immortality to mankind.
My God have mercy on my soul ,if these thoughts are true.

Before i get thrown to the lions, i am no scholar. i read my bible with a passion, i do not belong to some sect, and i know that my redeemer lives.


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Trevor Collins

 2006/12/9 7:06Profile





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